What the heck!!!!

[Mike SC Hunter]

Bought a 4 in. 610 yesterday. Checked it at the store for barrel alignment/timing/forcing cone/rifling/lock up...........All perfect. Gun locks up tight as any Smith I own. AND! it has the one piece barrel! Last night I was going to remove the 25 cent grips to check the main spring. "WHAT The Heck!.....Grip screw has a Allen wrench head. Will cut a groove for a regular flat screw driver till I wood it.
I realize these are 25 cent grips made for Smith......But Allen head? I would never buy their .44 rifle because it's put together with TORX screws and is butt ugly. Hope the don't start using Allen/Torx screws on their revolver frames.

Ad a question. Why the back of the firing pin a hollow tube? When did they start doing this?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Ad a question. Why the back of the firing pin a hollow tube? When did they start doing this?

That is called a Roll Pin, as hardware goes they've been around about 100 years +/-. S&W has been using them for decades. The advantage is they don't walk out of the hole due to vibration. Most are destroyed by removal and use a special type of punch.

Allen head screws and wrenches predate WWII and Torx go back to the 70's! Have you been hiding among the Amish?

Ivan

 

[glenwolde]

Dan Wesson revolvers always had Allen head screws.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

That is called a Roll Pin, as hardware goes they've been around about 100 years +/-. S&W has been using them for decades. The advantage is they don't walk out of the hole due to vibration. Most are destroyed by removal and use a special type of punch.

Allen head screws and wrenches predate WWII and Torx go back to the 70's! Have you been hiding among the Amish?

Ivan

I own a lot of Smiths. This is the first Allen head I've saw on a Smith. I realize Allen/Torx have been around a long time. They just look butt ugly on a firearm..........The back of the firing pin is a hollow tube..........NOT a roll pin. And yes I have roll pin punches to remove roll pins.

 

[jaymoore]

....The back of the firing pin is a hollow tube..........NOT a roll pin.

I think they were first seen about the time the 929 came out. They appeared and seemed to go away after a while.

 

[JohnHL]

I own a lot of Smiths. This is the first Allen head I've saw on a Smith. I realize Allen/Torx have been around a long time. They just look butt ugly on a firearm..........The back of the firing pin is a hollow tube..........NOT a roll pin. And yes I have roll pin punches to remove roll pins.

Back in the 1980's, S&W used an Allen head screw to retain the right side manual safety lever on their 2nd generation semi-auto pistols.

They also used a Phillips head screw in the same role.

I think the Allen screw was replaced by the Phillips screw, but I can't remember if it was in that order or the other way around.

John

 

[Sevens]

The Phillips screw was first, the allen head screw replaced it. That poor Phillips screw was NOT svelte, it looked out of place on the pistol, the allen head screw looked much more appropriate.

Another allen head screw on a S&W? The Model 52, the Model 745 and any/all of the PC Limited single action target pistols. Also an allen head screw on every S&W 3rd Gen with a Novak low mount fixed rear sight.

Also, the removable/switchable comp on the X-frame 460/500 Magnums are held in place by an allen screw… debut in the year 2000 maybe?

 

[Tom S.]

I prefer Allen and Torx heads to either slots and Phillips. They offer better gripping and less chance of slipping. When building dies for GM (but it applied no matter the company) all we used were Allen head screws, some of them up to 1 1/4" in size.

The smaller size Allen and Torx screws can be stripped or rounded, but in almost every case, doing so was the result of applying too much torque. Amateurs often get into trouble in this respect. Using the recommended torque will result in a screw head that shows little if any marks/wear and can be fastened or removed multiple times with little or no marring. As a plus, I have been able to remove both types that were rounded by ham-handed owners in a variety of manners that required none of the hassle damaged slots or Philips screws can require. Sometimes it's as simple as putting a different size wrench into the hole, such as inserting a Torx bit into a rounded Allen hole. In other's using a easy-out did the trick.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Back in the 1980's, S&W used an Allen head screw to retain the right side manual safety lever on their 2nd generation semi-auto pistols.

They also used a Phillips head screw in the same role.

I think the Allen screw was replaced by the Phillips screw, but I can't remember if it was in that order or the other way around.

John

I remember this...........All my 3rd gens R-S-safeties are held in by a plunger and looks the best.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Why the back of the firing pin a hollow tube? When did they start doing this?

The M610-3 was re-introduced in Mar-2019.

Mine was made in Apr-2019 & also has that type of firing pin.

I suspect that it had something to do with lightening it, maybe for the drop test?

Whatever the reason was it didn't seem to stick around & as far as I know the only firing pin replacements S&W sells now is the solid one.

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[Greyman50]

Machinery handbook, nuf sed.

 

[scooter123]

Guys, these are Hex Socket Head Screws, not Allen screws. The tools are Hex Keys. As for Allen, that was the company that produced the early Hex Keys and sold them thru Hardware Stores. I will also note that Hex Socket Head screws are common on industrial machinery because it's a lot easier to carry a 12 inch piece of 3/4 inch tubing and a pack of hex keys than it is to carry a small toolbox. All you have to do is slip the hex keys in your back pocket and tuck the tube into your belt and you are good to go for a lot of basic repairs or tool changes. As for why the Pipe, it's for leverage.

 

[jeffrefrig]

I bought a new new Model 27-9 a couple years back. Beautiful gun, even with the lock that bugs many people. The stocks were butt ugly so they were going away. In the initial wipe down I found the stocks were held on with a Torx head, so I had to go get my set out. I was very lightly “criticized” for having issue with the Torx on the stocks by a couple people here but I brushed it off. I feel S&W at least could have included a cheap Torx for the stock removal, (like the old SATs included with the earlier revolvers) and better yet use Torx on the rest of the screws instead of a flat blade, where the Torx head would give an easier screw removal. I bought a set of decent screwdrivers that still wouldn’t budge the screws. This is where Torx would serve the best purpose. S&W CS told me the threads on the screws were color coded with a dab of paint so the assemblers knew where they go. This acted as a type of Loctite that inhibited removal of the screws. This was just one of my issues I had/have with this gun. It’s still a great gun. The blueing is very nice, like 1973 nice, but I really believe it will wear down very quickly if I don’t pay attention.
OP, I hope all works out for you.

 

[jjrr]

Guys, these are Hex Socket Head Screws, not Allen screws. The tools are Hex Keys. As for Allen, that was the company that produced the early Hex Keys and sold them thru Hardware Stores. I will also note that Hex Socket Head screws are common on industrial machinery because it's a lot easier to carry a 12 inch piece of 3/4 inch tubing and a pack of hex keys than it is to carry a small toolbox. All you have to do is slip the hex keys in your back pocket and tuck the tube into your belt and you are good to go for a lot of basic repairs or tool changes. As for why the Pipe, it's for leverage.

In the old days when I was in the army(aviation) I almost had to fight the tool crib man because I ask him for an adjustable wrench, he got really mad and informed me that that was a crescent wrench so I ended the conversation by telling him to give me a crescent wrench. In my other life as an electrical and instrument man for the DuPont company I was working on a piece of equipment custom made in the Wilmington custom shop and couple of guys from Wilmington were there and I asked them why everything they made had the socket head bolts and they said well they were strong and that was all they used so mechanical things and fasteners and people are a lot of fun.

 

[jeffrefrig]

In the old days when I was in the army(aviation) I almost had to fight the tool crib man because I ask him for an adjustable wrench, he got really mad and informed me that that was a crescent wrench so I ended the conversation by telling him to give me a crescent wrench.

That’s funny and sounds very familiar! I had to work with a guy that didn’t even know the proper names for anything like tools. I was bored one day and printed out a small sign to throw on the wall! I could hear a weird buzzing in his head with a Duhh.
Crescent = adjustable wrench
ChannelLock = slip joint pliers
Allen = hex head
Sawzall = reciprocating saw
Et cetera…there are many!!!
(Also, it’s etc., not ect.!)

 

[mikerjf]

Sawzall, skill saw, saber saw… the only thing I ever called them. Phillips, cross-point (I know the difference). Didn’t encounter the come-along until later on. Tools!

My favorite file, with the best feel and cleanest cut on anything, was made for formica. Funny how we get a favorite screwdriver, hammer, etc.

 

[jaymoore]

FWIW, we still use Allen brand hex wrenches in our shop. So asking for an Allen wrench at the tool crib is correct. We also use Apex drivers in various configurations, which is rather more confusing.

 

[Greyman50]

Just check out the DIN system…..