What the libs don't want you to know about Wal-Mart

[Forester]

I've told this story here before and will likely do it again on the next Walmart thread.

In December of 1991 I was unemployed and not trained for much of anything. I started doing carpentry right out of high school in June 1990. Worked for 6 months before getting laid off. Not much building going on then. Spent the next summer and fall working at a go-kart/batting cage place. Walmart was opening a store (the first one in NH) in my town. I reluctantly went to the job fair and was the sixteenth person hired. I was part of the set up crew which was fun. 8-4, Monday through Friday. Of course it changed drastically when the store opened. Still, it was a good steady job and I did well. I was named Department manager (the youngest in the store) in about a year. I had health insurance and dental coverage. I was paying a total of less than $20 every two weeks for this coverage. 80/20 plan with $500 deductible. Pay was not great but it was better than I was making doing carpentry when I graduated.

It was, however, an eye opener. I learned rather quickly that while I had advanced and could possibly make assistant manager over time, it just was not what I wanted to do with my life. So Walmart helped me be stable and have income, while at the same time, pushed me to go to college. They accommodated me by letting me go part time status while I was going to school.

Now, I can't speak to what their policies are now, but for me they were the Right thing at the right time in my life. For our family, they help us save money every time we go there. That difference goes directly in our pocket and will help send my daughter to college. Hyperbole, I know, but any money saved helps in this goal.

As far as the mom and pop stores, that is life. Tough medicine, I know, but that is the nature of the free market beast. I will go to the local hardware store and spend more money than necessary because it saves me a 20 mile one way trip. But there is a limit to how much I will overspend on these local stores. When they push that limit I can wait until I get to Walmart.

 

[NFrameFred]

FWIW, my take is small, locally owned "mom & pop" businesses only survive because they cater to a niche need (think 'gas and grocery quick stops') when they can get the supplies they need at a reasonable cost (which does NOT include sending a semi-trailer frequently from a warehouse/supplier two hundred miles away for a 'case of this and two of that').

Mom and pop businesses disappeared and continue to disappear not because of Walmart but because modern cars and incomes (starting in the 60's, especially) and the road and transportation system improvements (interstates) made the average person so much more mobile that they didn't have to settle for the limited selection of products the smaller privately owned stores offered since they couldn't afford to do otherwise because they were "mom & pop" operations. Thus it has always been. The population grew from small town status of several communities strung out each with their own little support systems, to growing into sprawling suburbs and towns whose official populations may number only a few thousand, but add to that the number of residents living in the surrounding areas that call that town "home" and it can swell to tens to hundreds of thousands quite easily.

And the answer to that unfortunately is not a hodge-podge of hundreds of little mom & pop stores strategically situated with limited space and offerings, but Walmart, and other large chain stores centrally located, big enough to carry a great deal to satisfy the largest number of customers in one place.

I dread going to Walmart for all the reasons everyone else does, and I have officially reached "codgerville" in my thinking and memories (grew up in the 50's and 60's) but I'm practical enough to realize those nostalgic things some of us are fortunate enough to have experienced and remember like the small corner candy store are never coming back. And it's not because Walmart sells candy.

 

[wbraswell]

I, like many, have the love/hate relationship with Wally World. I just wish they would sell handguns. That would improve their image in my mind.

 

[RufusG]

Walmart has cost many states, California for one, millions perhaps billions, by not providing decent health care benefits to their employees. These folks all end up on the public dole for their health care.

I'm having a hard time understanding how it's Wal-mart's fault that the state feels obligated to pay for these folks healthcare.

 

[godlessgael]

everyone tries to paint walmart as a heartless corporation. however, a couple of weekends back my cousin and I were driving up from Santa Barbara. About 70 miles from home, his back tire went flat. Riding around on a donut, we finally made it to a Costco, unfortunately, they closed at 6pm and it was 6:05. Too bad they said.

We went to Walmart a few more exits down. They closed at 6pm too, and it was now about 6:20pm. They were cleaning up their shop. Did they send us away? No way, they clocked out and still helped us. Of course, both of the guys in the tire shop were vets at Walmart and Costco was staffed by pierced lipped jerks.

 

[NFrameFred]

Originally posted by RufusG:

Walmart has cost many states, California for one, millions perhaps billions, by not providing decent health care benefits to their employees. These folks all end up on the public dole for their health care.

I'm having a hard time understanding how it's Wal-mart's fault that the state feels obligated to pay for these folks healthcare.

I will not debate the wisdom or cost to the employee or employer of providing health insurance as a perk of the job. I have it through my job but I pay through the nose for it, though likely not as much as a separate policy would cost.

The main point to be made here, is that private companies do not exist to provide anyone with a car, a house, a new jet ski, braces for their kids, 2 week vacations or health care. Companies exist only if they make a profit. They are not insidious or evil or selfish for doing so. In the course of making that profit, if they feel they can provide the employees who willingly asked for and accepted their jobs increased pay and benefits then that is great and to be commended. But an employee who takes a job with a company willingly and knowing that those benefits are not provided is disingenuous when complaining about it. In this country you are free to better yourself by seeking more education, more training, a better job with benefits, or to dig in your own pocket and invest your sweat and your own family's future by starting your own company or business and providing some of that largess to others you choose to hire.

Life's tough, there are no guarantees and unless you're a socialist who feels like the majority has a duty to support you in the style you'd like or are accustomed to then it's pretty much what you make it.

Another big discussion here at the moment concerns the auto industry. For years the unions demanded and got primo perks and benefits from employers who just continued to pass on the costs of their employees entitled life styles until the average working American either could not afford their products or risked bankruptcy themselves trying to own the latest and greatest. Now the car companies are sucking their last breaths and Walmart is making a profit.

The money for these things doesn't just "appear" out of nowhere unless you're Obammy and you just pick up the phone and tell them to print a few trillion more. And with nothing of substance to back that up, just wait and see where that leads us. Employees want health care and benefits ? Then there has to be enough money to run the company, produce the product at a price folks can afford and still make a profit. Means everybody has to get a little slice of the pie and one sector (the upper management, stockholders, or the unions) can't get an inordinate share or nothing works.

 

[godlessgael]

game, set, match. Well said NFrameFred.

 

[feralmerril]

On my mothers side the family they were in the grocgry business far back to at least the 1870s far as I know. Great grandpa came from germany in 1860s and started one in iowa. Thats all my grandpa knew, and had a large country general store in wisconsin. My mother bought him out and raised me in it untill the end of war two.
My dad talked her into selling out after the war, but it was in her blood forever. When she was about 14 years old grandpa fixed up a model T truck, her and my uncle had grocery routes to farmers in the area.
Almost to her death mom had fruit stands, would take their truck to various "Market square" days and peddal fruit or whatever in various towns in central wisconsin. The oshkosh newspaper once did a artical on her in her mid 70s. One of my uncles nicknamed her "apple mary".
Anyway, after mom sold out to a girlfriend of hers, about 10 years later in the mid 50s that store had to go under as did many other country stores, not due to walmart, they werent on the scene yet, but to the bigger supermarkets like safeway and piggyly wiggly. The country small general stores pretty much all went under in the late 50s before walmart.

 

[Capt Steve]

While this thread probably belongs in the political forum, what the heck. I am amazed to find so many right wing conservatives singing the praises of Walmart. Ask a few folks who had a Walmart built in their neighborhood what it did for traffic, congestion, noise, property values etc. Yes they generate tax revenues. They should as their load on community infrastructure is enormous.

Here is a store that has completely bailed on their early commitment to "Buy American" and now imports most of their products from Asia. They pay their workers as little as possible with minimal benefits. Most of their employees cannot afford to shop for health care in the open marketplace. The problem is that everyone has health care issues and needs and when they are unable to provide for themselves they seek intervention from the government in one form or another. I'm not saying this is right or wrong just noting the reality here. In California the state pays millions to care for Walmart employees and their families there by subsidizing Walmart, making them more profitable with your tax dollars. All in all not a bad business model but hardly a corporation that I choose to reward with my business.

I worked in the marine retail industry for many years. Back in the mid 80's there was an upstart chain, West Marine, that was the discount darling of the industry. Their success brought tremendous growth and they began to buy up all of the competition(they bought out E&B Marine and Boat US just to name two).

Not content to eliminate the larger competitors they began to buy or drive out all of the mom and pop shops as well. They would offer mom and pop 50 cents on the dollar under the threat of moving a new West Marine in next door if they didn't sell. In a few years nearly every independent operation had been driven under. Lo and behold boaters found that West Marine was no longer a discount operation. Prices soared, many products were being sold above the MSRP and alternative shopping locations were next to impossible to find. The irony here is that as the economy tanked most folks cut back on their marine spending and now West Marine is bleeding money like GM. It will be interesting to see if they survive.

Will this happen with Walmart? Who knows. Many of their competitors have gone under and many more are teetering on the brink. Eliminate a few more large chains that provide some measure of competition for Walmart and all bets are off. Their classic "Price Rollback" ads always make me laugh. Oops, been paying too much for that all these years.

If you love Walmart it is OK with me. By all means reward them with your business. I just don't see them as the darling of the retail world.

 

[Smitty500Mag]

Originally posted by rburg:
What upsets many is they resist unionization.

There's a reason for that. You don't see Wal-Mart with their hand stuck out wanting a handout from the government like the auto industry that let the UAW drive them out of business.

Smitty

 

[Spotteddog]

Harsh Smitty.
But undeniably true!

 

[RufusG]

I am amazed to find so many right wing conservatives singing the praises of Walmart. Ask a few folks who had a Walmart built in their neighborhood what it did for traffic, congestion, noise, property values etc. ....... In California the state pays millions to care for Walmart employees and their families

First off, you don't know me, so I'd prefer if you don't label me.

Second, you are confusing pointing out the flaws in the whining/bashing with singing the praises of WM. It's not the same.

Third, there's nothing stopping any community from making WM foot the bill for a wider road, traffic light, etc. and many do just that. Also, please direct me to information documenting loss of property vaues adjacent to Wal Mart stores.

Lastly, I'm still mystified about your gripe about the cost to the state of healthcare to WM employees. Are you saying that they (CA) don't provide the same benefits to people sitting on their ass and not working, that somehow WM is costing the state MORE money by hiring them?

 

[ArcticFox]

Originally posted by Capt Steve:
In California the state pays millions to care for Walmart employees and their families there by subsidizing Walmart, making them more profitable with your tax dollars. All in all not a bad business model but hardly a corporation that I choose to reward with my business.

It would cost CA a lot more if WM did not hire the less able in the numbers that they do hire. Where would all of those employees with documented disabilities go? And keep in mind that a working person requires less services in a number of areas, (medical, mental, social, vocational, etc) than one who is chronically unemployed.

 

[Capt Steve]

First off, you don't know me, so I'd prefer if you don't label me.

First of all I didn't label you. Show me where your name appears in my post. Secondly, I like unions about as Much as Walmart does. Thirdly almost every major employer, except Walmart has routinely provided their employees access to some form of health insurance. Check on Loews, Costco, Home Depot, Target etc., and you will find this is simply a fact.

"Also, please direct me to information documenting loss of property vaues adjacent to Wal Mart stores."

Would you like a Walmart built next to your home? If you think building a Walmart adjacent to a single family residences does not decrease their value then there is nothing I can say.

"Lastly, I'm still mystified about your gripe about the cost to the state of healthcare to WM employees"

Well if those folks were working for any of the other companies I mentioned they would have health care and would not be using your tax dollars and mine. You seem to think folks only have two choices: work for Walmart or sit around on their collective asses doing nothing. I support and admire Walmart's program that employs the disabled/handicapped but they are by no means alone in this regard. Happily many corporate employers have recognized the value these people can bring to the workplace.

Walmart, like every other chain will continue to work on being as profitable in these tough economic times. They have found the formula that works for them: flood the market place with low cost/quality products, mostly from Asia and other third world economies and provide low wage/benefit jobs. Both keep costs low and profits high. I cannot argue with their success, it's just their methods that I find objectionable.

 

[Gun-runner]

I tried the Wal-Mart kool aide, Goofy Grape I believe and spit it out:

http://wakeupwalmart.com/
http://www.1worldcommunication.org/Walmart.htm
http://walmartwatch.com/blog/a...porate_websites_list

 

[ElToro]

Originally posted by godlessgael:

We went to Walmart a few more exits down. They closed at 6pm too, and it was now about 6:20pm. They were cleaning up their shop. Did they send us away? No way, they clocked out and still helped us. Of course, both of the guys in the tire shop were vets at Walmart and Costco was staffed by pierced lipped jerks.

they should give the guys in Sonora a lesson. got a flat tire on a sunday afternoon between Angels Camp and Sonora. figured the guys there would help me out. probly 15 minutes past the hour they closed maybe 5pm ? the roll up gate was still open. i rolled in clearly showing my flat tire. FU was their attitude to me and my wife. I topped off the air in my 50 mph donut spare at a gas station and creeped home... 3+ hours for a 1.5 hour drive

otherwise never had a problem. plus they will take almost anything in return. just bought some ammo there yesterday.

 

[riptrack44]

I get a kick out of Wally World's parking lot. One sees junkers all the way to Mercedes Benz. The patrons represent the entire spectrum of humanity from tattooed overweight females in spandex to nicely dressed people. Their entire inventory is not imported either. Anyway, show me a store that carries only US made items and I'll show you a store going out of business soon.

 

[NFrameFred]

I've got more substantive things to worry about, but I guess some folks gotta have something to hate or bitch about and Walmart is a big target. Personally, I detest Target more than Walmart, come to think of it . . . .

 

[NCTexan]

While this thread probably belongs in the political forum...

I marked this date on my calendar. This is the first time that I've agreed with anything that 'Capt Steve' has posted!

Of course 'Walmart' is a political issue... The liberals have chosen it as simple symbol to rally their simple masses.

It makes an easy target to demonize, and someone or something to blame. And besides... it looks good on a protest sign or a bumper sticker.

Walmart joins Halliburton, Cheney, Katrina, Wall Street, AIG, and Palin as symbols that spark emotions that few of them could explain.

 

[bk43]

Here is a store that has completely bailed on their early commitment to "Buy American" and now imports most of their products from Asia. They pay their workers as little as possible with minimal benefits. Most of their employees cannot afford to shop for health care in the open marketplace. The problem is that everyone has health care issues and needs and when they are unable to provide for themselves they seek intervention from the government in one form or another. I'm not saying this is right or wrong just noting the reality here. In California the state pays millions to care for Walmart employees and their families there by subsidizing Walmart, making them more profitable with your tax dollars.

It's not Walmart's fault that the manufacturing for a large part of what they sell moved offshore. Clothing, for example, is no longer made in the USA so Walmart has no choice but to go overseas if they want to sell clothing in their stores. Not exactly rocket science.

On the issue of pay and benefits, they pay what others pay for like work. These big companies are constantly buying surveys that tell them what their competition pays and the benefits they offer. If they weren't competitive, nobody would work there. They'd all be at Target, Lowes, Home Depot or whatever.

California is their own problem. They are broke because the loony libs in charge love to give freebies to an ever growing population of freeloaders. At the same time they're driving businesses out of the state at an alarming rate with oppressive taxes and regulations.

In passing, I really enjoy the "I hate Walmart but that's where I buy my ammo 'cause it's cheap". Why should a young mother taking care of her family or retired person on a fixed income or anybody else really, not be able to save a few bucks by shopping at Walmart. What's the problem?

Bob