What to use when you can't find 2400?

[johngalt]

probably because blue dot suffers the same availability issues of everything else Alliant.
300 MP is a good performer ... didn't mention it ... it's another Alliant powder. They have been horrible about meeting the latest demands.

I guess it has been a while since I bought any powder. Back when I lived in SW Ohio, Alliant powders were the easiest to get, so that's what I used. Is the Alliant shortage a regional thing, or is it scarce everyplace?

 

[johngalt]

Be careful with H110/W296. With this powder, it is unwise to and reloading manuals state that you should not reduce the maximum safe charge by more than 5%. Dropping this slow burning, spherical powder to less than 95% of maximum charge can result in inconsistent ignition of the powder. H110/W296 also has a well deserved reputation for impressive fireballs and forcing cone erosion. I reserve this powder for absolute maximum velocity magnum loads.

One of the interesting things I've noticed about H110 is every manual I have cautions against reducing loads, although I've seen them state 3%. Trouble is, there is more variation in that in the published loads. So it shouldn't be downloaded more than 3% (or 5%) from what?

 

[Skeet 028]

I had trouble many years ago with H110/296. I found it needed mag primers to be consistent. I had a few fail to fires in the 44mag. Changed to mag primers never had another problem. Prior to that batch of loads I had used 295 powder but always with Win primers. I don't remember what primers I had trouble with... CCI probably. I use 296 mostly in 410...Unique Herco or 2400 in 44s

 

[dave1918a2]

Blue Dot is right next to 2400 on the burn rate chart. I use it a lot.

 

[rockquarry]

I had trouble many years ago with H110/296. I found it needed mag primers to be consistent. I had a few fail to fires in the 44mag. Changed to mag primers never had another problem. Prior to that batch of loads I had used 295 powder but always with Win primers. I don't remember what primers I had trouble with... CCI probably. I use 296 mostly in 410...Unique Herco or 2400 in 44s

I haven't used 296/H110 for any handgun cartridges in years, much preferring # 2400, but I used a good bit of 296 some time ago in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum with cast bullets. I tried CCI standard and magnum primers in both cartridges; they always fired and I could see no real difference in accuracy or velocity between standard and magnum primers. I suspect ignition in very cold weather might be enhanced with magnum primers, but that's only a guess.

 

[rosewood]

One of the interesting things I've noticed about H110 is every manual I have cautions against reducing loads, although I've seen them state 3%. Trouble is, there is more variation in that in the published loads. So it shouldn't be downloaded more than 3% (or 5%) from what?

From max published load in manual.

 

[rosewood]

IMR4227 is probably close to 2400. They have discontinued the H4227 label, but if I read it right, H4227 was a tad slower than IMR and they really discontinued IMR and relabeled H4227 to IMR because IMR was more popular, but that could be internet rumors.

Rosewood

 

[rockquarry]

One of the interesting things I've noticed about H110 is every manual I have cautions against reducing loads, although I've seen them state 3%. Trouble is, there is more variation in that in the published loads. So it shouldn't be downloaded more than 3% (or 5%) from what?

I understand. I'm not recommending anything, but when I used 296 powder in .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum some years ago, I usually settled on loads that were suggested mimimum or maybe 3% or 4% below minimum. Generally, the difference between minimum and maximum 296 powder charges in reputable paper published manuals wasn't much anyway if I remember this right. If you're using Internet data, check against a reputable source.

I never ran into ignition problems with standard or magnum primers when using this powder, but I always used cast bullets, usually fairly heavy ones, 160 grains in .357 and 250 grains or so in .44 Magnum. Whether the use of jacketed bullets would make any difference, I don't know.

 

[cowboy4evr]

It seems the conversation has gotten into discussing H110 / W296 powders in the 357 . My favorite load is 16.0 grs using a gas checked 158 gr bullet . In my case it's the Lyman 358156 ( double crimp grooves ) loaded in a 357 case and crimped in the top groove . This load touches the base of the bullet w/ little or no compression . I find it very accurate , modest recoil and has a lot of punch . The last time I used this load was in my 19 , 2.5" barrel . It was even a great / fun load in that firearm . I always use a magnum primer . This is a load that has found great favor with me , a keeper for sure . Regards Paul

 

[johngalt]

From max published load in manual.

But which manual? They're all different.

 

[rockquarry]

But which manual? They're all different.

If you have the experience, combine that with known data. With enough relatively current reputable sources (load manuals) it shoudn't be difficult or unsafe. Avoid YouTube and Internet sources unless they can be verified with established reference material.

 

[Nemo288]

edited

IMR4227 is probably close to 2400. They have discontinued the H4227 label, but if I read it right, H4227 was a tad slower than IMR and they really discontinued IMR and relabeled H4227 to IMR because IMR was more popular, but that could be internet rumors.

Could be
My large keg of IMR4227 says made in Australia so you are correct.
This was purchased after H4227 was dropped from Hodgdon's line.
I never considered that aspect of the 4227 saga.
Lemme try dropping AR2205 into some of my "corrected" IMR4227 QuickLOAD recipes
for the .445 and see if they are closer to reality than the stock IMR4227 powder profiles.
I usually have to tweak the burn rate of IMR4277 up by increasing the temperature some to reflect actual measured performance.
AR2207 works better for me than H4198 in modeling 444 loads and
AR2219 is identical to H322 except for the load density which is wrong in the Hodgdon profile.

Thanks for pointing this situation out to us.

Edit:
I have determined that the QuickLOAD profile for IMR4227 is the closest to my actual performance in the .445.
"H4227" produces lower pressure and slightly lower velocity (but is fairly close) and
"AR2205" gives much higher pressure and somewhat higher velocity.
Notice that these loads are in a different environment than your normal magnum revolver cartridges.
They are running up to 45kpsi in an Encore. Some are in cut-down rifle brass.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

It seems the conversation has gotten into discussing H110 / W296 powders in the 357 . My favorite load is 16.0 grs using a gas checked 158 gr bullet . In my case it's the Lyman 358156 ( double crimp grooves ) loaded in a 357 case and crimped in the top groove . This load touches the base of the bullet w/ little or no compression . I find it very accurate , modest recoil and has a lot of punch . The last time I used this load was in my 19 , 2.5" barrel . It was even a great / fun load in that firearm . I always use a magnum primer . This is a load that has found great favor with me , a keeper for sure . Regards Paul

That must assuredly be a flame throwing load from that snubby.

 

[rockquarry]

That must assuredly be a flame throwing load from that snubby.

Some like the fire and flash as stated on this forum many times.