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What wadcutters?
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ironhead7544
Member
The M52 is a wadcutter target pistol. Most calibers of revolvers can use wadcutters.
MrTrolleyguy
US Veteran
The question should be which revolver can only shoot (flush)wascutters and the answer is the model 52. There probably are more but I don't know which. Any .38 or .357 caliber revolver can fire wadcutters.
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Green Frog
Member
Twenty five years or so ago a couple of custom gunsmiths were building competition revolvers with shortened cylinders and elongated barrel tenons so that only wadcutters could be fired in them. The theory was that the bullet had no freebore... it was still in the case within the cylinder as it was entering the forcing cone, so it aligned perfectly with the bore. I'm not aware of any factory built revolver from S&W so designed.
Otherwise, we are back to semi-autos, of which there is only one, the exquisite Model 52. But that has already been mentioned.
Froggie
Otherwise, we are back to semi-autos, of which there is only one, the exquisite Model 52. But that has already been mentioned.
Froggie
Very interesting replies. Of course I knew about the 52. It's on the top of my list of next guns to buy. What I was having difficulty in determining was 1) are there any more eligible semi-auto wadcutters? and 2) what revolvers if any are capable of shooting wadcutters?
As for semi-autos I understand that S&W only made the 52. Correct? I understand that the other manufacturers are divided between the European .32s and the Colt .38 Special. Correct?
As for revolvers I now understand that ALL are capable of shooting wadcutters. Correct? That would make sense if the charge didn't exceed the gun's limitations. Interesting comment on free bore and the idea of limiting it for wadcutters.
I've been target shooting with a bullseye group lately, which is the reason for asking these questions about wadcutters. You can't help but be impressed with the holes they make on paper. It's been interesting discovering the guns used in the sport. The 22lr has obviously received the bulk of attention and refinement. The designs offered are astounding and interesting. On the other end of that spectrum is the tried and true 1911, which seems to dominate .45 caliber. I still can't understand why there isn't development similar to the .22lr. I realize there are many creative tweaks to the 1911 but I've seen nothing in comparison to the .22lr. I also don't understand why the ubiquitous 9mm is almost totally ignored in centerfire, an event where the 1911 .45 ACP also dominates. And why in this same event .32 isn't more common, at least here in this country.
As for semi-autos I understand that S&W only made the 52. Correct? I understand that the other manufacturers are divided between the European .32s and the Colt .38 Special. Correct?
As for revolvers I now understand that ALL are capable of shooting wadcutters. Correct? That would make sense if the charge didn't exceed the gun's limitations. Interesting comment on free bore and the idea of limiting it for wadcutters.
I've been target shooting with a bullseye group lately, which is the reason for asking these questions about wadcutters. You can't help but be impressed with the holes they make on paper. It's been interesting discovering the guns used in the sport. The 22lr has obviously received the bulk of attention and refinement. The designs offered are astounding and interesting. On the other end of that spectrum is the tried and true 1911, which seems to dominate .45 caliber. I still can't understand why there isn't development similar to the .22lr. I realize there are many creative tweaks to the 1911 but I've seen nothing in comparison to the .22lr. I also don't understand why the ubiquitous 9mm is almost totally ignored in centerfire, an event where the 1911 .45 ACP also dominates. And why in this same event .32 isn't more common, at least here in this country.
civil1977
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The .45 rules the centerfire portion of bullseye for several reasons. You only need two guns to shoot the entire 2700 match since the .45 can be used for the centerfire portion and .45 portion. So you only need to own, maintain and become proficient with two guns; the .45 and the .22. Second, the .45 makes a bigger hole and this is more likely to be touching the next highest scoring ring.
Dennis The B
US Veteran
Colt produced a 1911 in the late 1960's, early 1970's, chambered for the .38 Special wad cutter. There weren't a lot produced, but I've seen them, held them, and drooled all over them. They're still for sale, but expect to pay over $1.5k for one, even in so-so shape.
There was also a .38 AMU (Army Marksmanship Unit) round, for which Colt and S&W made semiautomatic pistols. Those are even more rare.
Colt also made a 38 wadcutter semi auto. It was a 1911 model chambered for that round. I don't know the time frame when they were made but I'm guessing they overlapped with the 52. Don't know which one came first but shouldn't be too hard to figure out.
Doug M.
Member
As a general rule, revolvers can chamber pretty much any bullet shape that is not too long for the cylinder. And most if not all WC loads are pretty mild, as they do not need a lot of velocity to achieve the target shooting mission.
RV4driver
US Veteran
Semi-wadcutters will make the same nice round hole, but the tapered nose will feed in a lot of semi-autos.
All revolvers of .38 Special caliber can chamber and shoot 38 WC ammo, as it is shorter than any other 38 Special ammo. As mentioned, there are some custom revolvers that are the opposite, you can shoot "only" 38 WC as RN or SWC would be too long. Factory issue S&W will all chamber WC ammo.
I've seen a couple of Colt 1911s chambered for .38 Special. Are they all, unlike the S&W 52, capable of also firing wadcutters? Also, is the Colt Mark III Gold Cup that member Bill A mentioned typical of all Colt 1911s in that they are of the blow-back design?
boatbum101
Member
The Colt factory 1911 in 38 special is not accurate enough for Bullseye . Master Pistolsmiths such as the late Jim Clark , John Giles & others made 38 special conversions on the 1911 platform & can be competitive . Factory target auto's like the S&W 52 & Sig P240 in 38 can also be accurate enough . Many Euro target pistols in 32 S&W Long can also be used , but do to being designed for 25 meter Int'l shooting really need a faster twist barrel for 50yd accuracy . All the above are designed to only shoot full wadcutter rounds . If you're serious about Bullseye get the best 22 you can afford & a 1911 45acp reworked by a dedicated Bullseye 'smith . Master them before you go off on tangents like 38 or 32 .
Yes, they are all blow-back and they will only chamber flush-seated wadcutters. As far as bullseye CF is concerned, you will wax most of the .45 guys if you are shooting the indoor match (50 foot) with either a .38 auto like the 52 or Clark conversion or .38 Gold Cup, or, better yet, a .32. Of course you will have to suffer the humiliation of shooting a "wimp gun" (.38 WC), or "super wimp gun" (.32 S&W Long WC).
Bill
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S&WIowegan
US Veteran
The .32 wadcutter revolvers in the US suffer from making a small hole in Bullseye shooting. Larger diameter bullets like .38 WC and 45s are much more helpful in cutting the higher scoring ring. That's probably why S&W K32 Masterpieces are so few in number.
I own a Colt .38 Mid-range semi-auto the just refuses to feed full wadcutter ammo.....guess that's why previous owners sold it.
I own a Colt .38 Mid-range semi-auto the just refuses to feed full wadcutter ammo.....guess that's why previous owners sold it.
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Does the 38 super also shoot wad cutters?
I disagree; the lighter recoil of the .32 more than makes up for the smaller holes.
IMO the unpopularity of the K32 had nothing to do with bullseye; most "target" revolvers, i.e., those with adjustable sights, are bought for general use, and the .32 S&W Long is not a versatile cartridge, unlike the .38.
You should have seen me wipe the place up with my Unique DES 32 in my indoor CF league when I shot against those guys making big holes with their .45's!
Sorry to hear about your Colt .38 problems. I have never, and I mean never, had a malfunction with mine. You might want to check the springs.
Regards,
Bill
El Biblioitecario
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If you are talking about auto pistols, my educated guess is yes--for the first shot, then the rest of the rounds would jam.
I've reloaded many rounds of Super .38, but have never contemplated using wadcutter bullets--nor do I ever intend to do so. My first thought was that the bullet might bulge the case, which could impede smooth chambering. If that were not an issue, I'd anticipate frequent jams--perhaps every round--unless a skilled pistolsmith throated the pistol to feed the blunt bullet--assuming that's even possible. If someone has successfully used wadcutter bullets in a Super .38 auto, I hope they respond.
If I wanted to shoot target loads in a Super 38, I'd use bullets designed to feed in a self-loading pistol, light powder charges, and perhaps a reduced power recoil spring.
I suppose wadcutter bullets might be loaded in Super .38 brass for use in revolvers--I know the .357 will chamber the Super .38 round. I see absolutely no point in doing this; I only mention it because Big Bill didn't specify pistol or revolver.
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Makes a lot of sense in many respects and I believe good advice. However, my enjoyment in Bullseye is not limited to the results on the score card. I also get a kick out of the learning process, acquiring new guns and trying something new. I've purchased 2- Model 41s and a Pardini SP for my 22.r efforts. I'm convinced that all of them are capable of shooting better than my current capabilities but it doesn't prevent me from looking at other 22lr pistols. There's just too many interesting designs out there to ignore. I'm somewhat convinced that in the hands of an accomplished shooter a properly configured 1911 chambered in .45 ACP is just as accurate as any of the lesser caliber pistols. And it makes sense to use this type of pistol for two of the Bullseye legs. However, I find it more interesting and maybe challenging to explore other pistol designs. As I said before, it amazes me that centerfire and .45 have settled so deeply in the 1911 platform.
