What's up with 2400??

[forestswin]

is it that 2400 is just not too sensitive to the amount of powder used ??????????

loaded up some 357 rounds with Penn Bullets 158 gr TCBB (Premium grade) and shot them today with my S&W 686 6" at 25 yards


loads were all Alliant 2400 with following increments:
11.4 gr, 11.6 gr, 11.8 gr, 12.0 gr, 12.2 gr, 12.4 gr. and a little jump up to 13.2gr

5 shots with 11.4 and 13.2 grouped less than 1 1/4"
5 shots with 11.6, 11.8 and 12.0 grouped less than 1 1/2"
and
5 shots with 12.2 and 12.4 grouped less than 2"

in other words they all grouped pretty darn well

Bob P says these are the most accurate 357 bullets he casts
hooked up with 2400 ---- pretty darn good

 

[rwsmith]

Happy

Looks like a really happy combination!

 

[Dave T]

2400 has been a legendary performer with cast bullets for more years that I've been doing this and that's well over 40 years. Not at all surprised at your results.

Dave

 

[Nevada Ed]

You had me scared for a second...............
I just ordered some 2400 for the 1st time , ever !!

Never needed anything but Blue Dot for my needs with
the m19 but with a new 686, I can now push the envelope !!

Glad to hear that is worked well for you.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Decisions...

I have some 158gr cast SWC bullets I was planning on loading up to about 1200fps & couldn't decide on which of my powders to "play" with. I think you helped my indecision.

(Oh no, did I say "think"... that doesn't sound very committed)

 

[fredj338]

Grouping has little to do with the amount of powder used, more the way your gun likes that combo. With slower powders, often accuracy gets better as load density increases. Onereason I like 2400 vs H110, I can download it a bit & still get good accuracy.

 

[andyo5]

Those seem like light loads. I have been loading 14.2g of 2400 with 158g JHP bullets.

 

[quinn]

In my younger days, we used 2400 as the standard substitute for black powder in the old single shot rifles... worked well in25-25 up to 50-90. Wonderful, flexible powder

 

[forestswin]

Those seem like light loads. I have been loading 14.2g of 2400 with 158g JHP bullets.

yeah, they are on the light load end of the data
I am going to do the top half up to 15.5 gr later

 

[kenjen]

you can also do the same with the 44 mag.

 

[ryanjames170]

2400 is a awesome powder it only lacks in being able to make. Few extra FPS that H110 makes but it makes up with it in a lot of other ways

 

[4barrel]

is it that 2400 is just not too sensitive to the amount of powder used ??????????

loaded up some 357 rounds with Penn Bullets 158 gr TCBB (Premium grade) and shot them today with my S&W 686 6" at 25 yards


loads were all Alliant 2400 with following increments:
11.4 gr, 11.6 gr, 11.8 gr, 12.0 gr, 12.2 gr, 12.4 gr. and a little jump up to 13.2gr

5 shots with 11.4 and 13.2 grouped less than 1 1/4"
5 shots with 11.6, 11.8 and 12.0 grouped less than 1 1/2"
and
5 shots with 12.2 and 12.4 grouped less than 2"

in other words they all grouped pretty darn well

Bob P says these are the most accurate 357 bullets he casts
hooked up with 2400 ---- pretty darn good

2400 IS A <FORGIVING POWDER> LIKE 748 IN A RIFLE.

 

[Nevada Ed]

You can "Fine tune" an accuracy load by different crimp pressures and also primers. I never know what will work out best. I have had loads that calls for regular primers and have cut a group in half by adding a mag primer or heavy crimp.

My 2400 is still some where in the middle of the USA.........
14 days and counting.

Enjoy that powder.

 

[bluetopper]

I always thought 2400 was the standard by which other powders were measured by in the 357. Been so since the 1930's I've read.

 

[M29since14]

You can't go wrong with any reasonable load of #2400 and a good quality 160-gr cast bullet. It is a great powder in general but really stands out for magnum revolver loads. I don't believe I would go up to 15.5 grains, unless you have some good reason for it. A long time ago guys would use up to 16.0 grains but I don't know anyone who does that these days. I use anywhere from 12.5 grains to 14.5 grains, depending on the gun and bullet. I think before I started loading 16 grains again, or anything close to that, I would get out a bigger gun.

 

[fredj338]

You can't go wrong with any reasonable load of #2400 and a good quality 160-gr cast bullet. It is a great powder in general but really stands out for magnum revolver loads. I don't believe I would go up to 15.5 grains, unless you have some good reason for it. A long time ago guys would use up to 16.0 grains but I don't know anyone who does that these days. I use anywhere from 12.5 grains to 14.5 grains, depending on the gun and bullet. I think before I started loading 16 grains again, or anything close to that, I would get out a bigger gun.

I would consider anything over 15.5gr w/ a 158-160gr LSWC as over pressure, but all guns are diff.

 

[forestswin]

....I don't believe I would go up to 15.5 grains, unless you have some good reason for it................. I use anywhere from 12.5 grains to 14.5 grains, depending on the gun and bullet.......

M29
thanks for the advice - actually I was thinking about (the high end) today because I wanted to finish my load development loads this week - to shoot next weekend.

the 13.2 gr load was pretty peppy and back in the 1 1/4" group
- looking at your range (12.5 to 14.5) - I really don't have any reason to go any higher - I'll probably stay right there - load about 24 more each of 11.4 grains and 13.2 grains - and see if my results are the same

this is fun

 

[fredj338]

M29
thanks for the advice - actually I was thinking about (the high end) today because I wanted to finish my load development loads this week - to shoot next weekend.

the 13.2 gr load was pretty peppy and back in the 1 1/4" group
- looking at your range (12.5 to 14.5) - I really don't have any reason to go any higher - I'll probably stay right there - load about 24 more each of 11.4 grains and 13.2 grains - and see if my results are the same

this is fun

At 13.1gr under a 158grLSWC, I am getting about 1160fps in several 4" guns, 1200fps in a 4 5/8" RBH. Extraction is smooth, I would work to 14.5gr & probably call that max. Lead bullets do NOT load like jacketed. YOu always use a lower powder charge for sim pressures & vel.

 

[WNC Seabee]

I've loaded up 10 each in 4 loads ranging from 14-15.5grs 2400 for my Marlin 1894C, also calst LSWC. Anybody have experience with this combo?

 

[fredj338]

I've loaded up 10 each in 4 loads ranging from 14-15.5grs 2400 for my Marlin 1894C, also calst LSWC. Anybody have experience with this combo?

How did you decide on 15.5gr as max? IMO, you are pushing over pressure. Caution.

 

[forestswin]

You can "Fine tune" an accuracy load by different crimp pressures and also primers. I never know what will work out best. I have had loads that calls for regular primers and have cut a group in half by adding a mag primer or heavy crimp.

My 2400 is still some where in the middle of the USA.........
14 days and counting.

Enjoy that powder.

Sorry to hear about your wait - I've been waiting for M1 30 Carbine dies about a month so far - I think I have another 2 weeks too.

I used CCI magnum primers for these Penn Bullets and 2400 because I was able to get a thousand a few months back. I'll save the CCI 500's for other powders and guns. I've read that I don't have to use magnum for 2400 - the books say to use them - so I know its okay

I want to reload a couple dozen of the 11.4 gr and 13.2 gr loads and go out and re-shoot - see if I get same results - after that I'll try a little heavier crimp as you say - see if it changes anything - I might learn something.

but I'll probably mark the die for the crimp the way I have it - cause there's nothing wrong in my book with 1.25" groups

 

[M29since14]

I would consider anything over 15.5gr w/ a 158-160gr LSWC as over pressure, but all guns are diff.

I agree and take it a step further. For me, the cutoff is 14.5 grains for ALL of my S&W .357s. Those 16 grain loads I mentioned were used in the '70s when my friends were shooting M27s or HPs and were trying to duplicate the claims for .357 factory loads, which back then I believe was 1550 FPS from an 8-3/8" barrel. I don't think anyone even had a chronograph. I remember looking at the empties. The primers were... "pretty flat."

 

[forestswin]

I can't believe I haven't got a "NO PICTURE - DIDN'T HAPPEN" so far

anyway - I just looked at these groups again and realized that even if I mixed up 11.4 gr and 13.2 gr - I'd still have a very good group

okay 2 good loads for a Model 686 w/6" barrel at 25 yards
Hornady 158 gr. swaged LSWC, CCI 500 primers, 5.0 gr Unique

Penn Bullets 158 gr TCBB, CCI 550 primers, 11.4 gr, 11.8 gr or 13.2 gr

 

[Nevada Ed]

My turn to play !!

Ups just delivered the goodies.................
I was down to 150 pistol and shotgun primers !!

"Back in the saddle again............."

Got my stuff but have had THREE straight days of RAIN !!
Oh well...............soon.

 

[nachogrande]

2400

I'm not sure if it's the powder I love to hate, or the one I hate to love. if it weren't so dam accurate I wouldn't go near it. the diff between 1 1/4" and 2" @ 25 yds might just be the shooter, not the load, unless the gun is in a vice or repeated numerous times. regardless it's very good. my belief is that it does not burn completely, so to keep adding more powder is a waste. may as well use the least amt that gives you the best accuracy, unless you have a chrono and are a velocity freak. to me it seems loud and recoils a lot. I limit it to larger calibers and longer bbl.'s. you may want to experiment with lower charge wt's and diff primers. or leave good enough alone, which is almost impossible for reloaders. and OK if you want to be doubted. how do we know for sure it was 25 yd's not 25', lol, jk. nice shooting.

 

[forestswin]

nacho

the diff between 1 1/4" and 2" @ 25 yds might just be the shooter, not the load, unless the gun is in a vice or repeated numerous times.

good point - I haven't repeated these loads yet - but I have developed a good bench rest technique on sandbags and push the trigger guard into the sand bag also - I use a 4x scope on this gun for a very good sight picture and the single action trigger pull of the 686 is great. I do get very repeatable results with this method with other loads I've developed. The scope will come off the gun and my hands will come off the sandbag when I get a few more loads

..... my belief is that it does not burn completely, so to keep adding more powder is a waste. may as well use the least amt that gives you the best accuracy

I did notice more powder residue in the barrel with 2400 than other powders - but I just ran a snake through a couple of times - that took care of that - I'm going to repeat a few of the loads at 25 yards and then try 50 yards - if I can get good groups at 50 yards with the higher load - I'll go with that

..unless you have a chrono and are a velocity freak

no I'm not - but I am a grouping freak - I want load development to give me tight groups

how do we know for sure it was 25 yd's not 25', lol, jk. nice shooting.

also a valid point - I'll take a picture from the bench next time but attached is a pic from a previous session

with the 4x scope and the gun honkered down on the sandbag - its not really my shooting ability thats being tested - to me its a test of the load, bullet and assembly of the rounds - I trim cases, brush inside the case, clean the primer pocket, etc.

later - I'll try skipping some of these steps that more experienced shooters say don't affect accuracy - but not now

 

[nachogrande]

2400

OMG, you don't uniform the primer pockets on pistols? so many diff opinions on reloading. I've heard it's the most important thing and it doesn't matter at all and is a total waste of time. OCD isn't always a bad thing when it comes to reloading. I even trickle dispense and weigh each and every load (during load development and testing). I DO think shooting is a mental game and anything you believe might help, likely will. can't think of a thing you said that I disagree with, and am a group size vs a velocity freak also. if you find a good 2400 load for a 2 3/4" speed 6 357 or a 4" 681 357 I'm all ears.

 

[Fishslayer]

to me it seems loud and recoils a lot.

To some of us that is a selling point!

I would guess most of us have the mild fast powder target loads and use the slow stuff for the 158gr thumpers. It's still fun to load up and run with the big Dogs.

 

[nachogrande]

2400

test fire new loads in a Ruger first, wouldn't want to blow up a S&W.

 

[tops]

I have been loading 15 grs. of 2400 and 158 gr. SWC since 1965. When I was younger with a 6 in. Python at 50 meas. yds. shooting one hand and off hand it would hit a quart oil can 4 out of 6. I always thought that was good enough for me. Velocity is 6 in. barrel 1429 fps, 4 in. barrel 1306 fps, 2 1/2 in barrel 1246 fps. Larry