What's your opinion? 43c- UPDATE

[petepeterson]

I own a 43c, something I'd wanted for awhile, but never got around to buying. It's a great little gun to throw in the pocket while I'm mowing, walking around the yard in shorts, etc...

Problem is, it's not reliable. I get one or two light strikes per cylinder. I've tried 9 different types and brands of ammo. No difference.

Since it's not exactly a life-saving device, I've been pretty patient with it. I put around 6-700 rds through it before I decided to send it back to S&W, with a detailed note describing the problem. This is the first firearm I've ever returned.

After around 9 weeks, the FedEx truck comes up the drive. I was pumped! Note in the box said "Repaired yoke."

Loaded it up, and headed up to my range. Bang! Click. Click. Shot through the rest of the cylinder OK. 4 more types of ammo, same thing. Out of eight cylinders, I did get through one with all eight rounds, which is a record for that piece.

I emailed CS again, and they shipped me another return label. It's just disappointing to have to wait 8-10 more weeks to get it back, and not know what I'll be getting.

What's your opinion? Am I expecting too much? Seems like for the price of that revolver new, it should be able to shoot just about anything.
And what would you do if it doesn't improve after the 2nd trip back? I wouldn't sell it to someone knowing of the issue, unless they were OK with it. And in that case I would be taking a beating on the resale.

Anyone else run into this? What was the outcome?

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I know someone who has one and carries it. He uses Federal Punch which has worked almost flawlessly for him. Yes, with 22 you will have a FTF every now and again even with defensive ammo, but that can happen with centerfire as well (My Model 36 had 15 FTF in one box of 50 Armscor FMJ).

Edit: the FTF very well could have been caused by my Model 36 and not Armscor ammo. I sold the Model 36 and have since continued to use Armscor with my 686 flawlessly other than one round that was seated too high. I still enjoy Armscor ammo and don't want people to think I'm bashing it, it's still my go to for target ammo, it just happened to not work with the Chief for some reason.

I know the guy who carries his very well and he uses it as his main defensive handgun, which tells me he trusts it a ton. I think he has gone through 1,000+ rounds of Federal Punch and had less than 5 FTF, maybe even less I will have to ask him.

A brick of Federal Punch is under 100$ per 500 so maybe its worth ordering some and trying that. If that still fails send it to S&W.

I like the 43C and may get one someday for my daughter, because I know he really trusts his. The nice thing about a revolver in 22, is that at least if you get a click, you just pull the trigger again. No tap, rack, bang nonsense to worry about, and you can get a second try on the next rotation (which I am told sometimes does the trick)

 

[Protocall_Design]

I don't get the leaf spring thing. I thought this model was a J frame with coil mainspring?

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I don't get the leaf spring thing. I thought this model was a J frame with coil mainspring?

I might have gotten the name wrong, as I do not own one, but he told me changing some spring helped.

 

[Magnum_PI]

Sorry to hear you're having these issues, as they shouldn't happen.

I can't tell you for sure if it's ammo related or gun related, but I know I've had plenty of trouble out of 22 ammo being cheap stuff over the years with not very good quality control. I have made the decision to not buy a 22 LR again and only use 22 Magnums. I've had a good share of loads that literally putted out of a rifle and fell 20 feet away, seemingly barely making it out of the barrel. Not cool...

I will say if it is the gun, they should have FIXED IT. Sounds like light primer striking on the hammer, but could be wrong...

I would say of the two, the 351c would be preferential. It's the 22 Magnum version. If you really want one, I'd sell and get the 351c. I don't think you're expecting too much to have a gun that works.

I've found I've never (personally) had any issue with 22 Magnum, find they are higher quality rounds, and always go bang. Recoil is nothing in a snub nosed size package. I have always bought CCI and had good results in that caliber.

The gun I have for the 22 Mag, purchased for the wife, is a Ruger LCR 22 Mag because I won't pay the premium for a S&W one that comes with I believe an aluminum cylinder and not steel. The LCR is aluminum and polymer framed with a steel cylinder. I am even considering getting one myself for a BUG when I feel the need to pack an extra one. Not bad weight, not bad price, usually had below $550 any day of the week and they go bang.

 

[jcs266]

I've thought about the 43c of the 351c and may pick one up. I carry a 4" .22 617 daily here around our rural home. We have lots of chickens and ducks, etc so between rattlers and coyotes that 617 is always on my hip (Simply Rugged pancake holster). During snake season the first 2 or 3 rounds are snakeshot. The rest are CCI 40gr Solids.

.22 ammo isn't 100% reliable for sure. The light strikes the OP talks of are unacceptable I agree. And to have sent it in for repairs and get it back with the same problem??? I'd be quite annoyed.

 

[petepeterson]

.22 ammo isn't 100% reliable for sure. The light strikes the OP talks of are unacceptable I agree. And to have sent it in for repairs and get it back with the same problem??? I'd be quite annoyed.

Annoyed, I am. I would understand if it was an autoloader, as different folks grip the gun differently. There are more variables there. With that revolver, though, there's no way it was test fired more than once or twice.
Fortunately, I have other things to pick from.

 

[43cApologist]

Annoyed, I am. I would understand if it was an autoloader, as different folks grip the gun differently. There are more variables there. With that revolver, though, there's no way it was test fired more than once or twice.
Fortunately, I have other things to pick from.

I own a 43c and have tried a few types of ammo (cci mini mag, & stingers, aguila super max, remington subsonic, and federal punch) so far that I can recall.

The mini mags and stingers FTF about 3-4% of the time in my 43c. 10% FTF from aguila super max, sub 1% ftf from remington subsonics and federal punch.

Also should note the aguila was first range trip, I am in CA and had to wait 10 days to pick it up, and excited just took it to range and shot a box of 50 stingers, 50 mini mags, and then 250 aguila super max. I like many others did not clean my gun or lube it before the first use (as the owners manual directs owners to do). The FTF rate that day was the worst its ever been. 10% (25 of 250) aka 1 in 10 which actually worked out to 1 or 2 in each 8 with an occasional clean 8 run thru with the aguila. And the stingers had a 8% ftf (4 of 50) and mini mags 6% ftf (3 of 50) on day one, which was roughly double the rate they FTF at compared to later range sessions after I cleaned and lubed the 43c.

I cleaned it really well externally, barrel, and cylinders but still had 3-4% ftf with mini mags and stingers which had a decent reputation for reliabilty in other 22 lr handguns but mainly rifles if i'm being honest with what I see..

After 1,000 rounds, I took off my side plate and cleaned the internals with ballistol and nylon tooth brush, after the 1,000+ round break in, and internal cleaning, the gun runs much smoother now then ever before. I've had 2 out of 1,000 federal punch ftf which didnt fire on second strikes and ill actually assume that is the ammo, since the case had 2 solid stamps from firing pin.

Remington sub sonics have only had 1 ftf in 300 rds, again didnt fire on 2nd strike and ill chalk that up to ammo with solid strikes.

The 43c seems to be a tricky one for many, its tiny, very light and still has some hand done touches, but ive seen many run well. Id highly suggest ballistol aerosol for cleaning and lubrication, and fed punch for reliable carry ammo. Sub sonics are nice to train new shooters, and are the only ones that dont start to become difficult to eject after 50-80 shots at the range.

Tldr.. id try to keep it well cleaned and lubed, and try those ammo selections if you haven't already. If that doesn't fix it, may need to go back to s&w again.. final thought is having good snap caps to dry fire can help break the springs in a bit faster without dirtying up gun or needing to have so much range time in.

Hope this helps, cheers. When the 43c runs well, its an awesome little j frame!

 

[Dump1567]

I'd send it back & tell them what ammo you want to use with it. And please test it. It might need a new hammer spring. Based on my research, the correct factory weight for a .22 hammer spring is 12 lbs (.38/.357 is 8.5lbs.). When you remove the grips, this is the spring you see. I've read since springs are mass produced, they may not actually be the correct rating. Have S&W replace your hammer spring.

I just picked-up a used one of these this morning. I'll have to see how it does. If I get some light strikes (which is common with .22), I may just increase my hammer spring weight.

But I liked the idea of just being able to pull the trigger again if a light strike occurs. Vs. having to rack the slide on a .22 auto.

 

[sprscientist]

I was considering a 43c too but went with a Ruger LCP II .22lr. Reviews have been hit or miss, and I put in a Galloway Precision trigger and spring kit, and it has gone bang every single time over about 300 rds, except for 1 rd that didn't ignite even on a 2nd attempt to fire that round. I pocket carry it with 11 rds of CCI minimags when I feel the need to have something better than a sharp stick.

 

[smoothshooter]

I will not keep ANY gun around that only functions with one or two kinds of ammo, which may not always be available, especially in times of crisis.
The problem is often firing pin protrusion. In rim fires, the difference between too long and too short is only a few thousandths.
Firing pin too long, raises burrs on the edges of the chambers when dry fired.
Firing pin too short, light strikes and misfires.
It seems to be a problem manufacturers in the past were to able to avoid by having an experienced quality control department, and skilled labor in plentiful supply that cared about and paid attention to such things.
Both of those are largely gone now.
I have three S & W and two Ruger .22 LR revolvers that almost never misfire. I know they are anomalies in the extreme, and I don’t know how I got so lucky.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Why not shim the strut on the bottom under the spring(with small washer) to increase the hammer power or try some hammer springs from WOLF Springs............Gotta be an easy fix.

 

[petepeterson]

Why not shim the strut on the bottom under the spring(with small washer) to increase the hammer power or try some hammer springs from WOLF Springs............Gotta be an easy fix.

I'm with you...to a point. I think it's the principle of the thing now. $700 or so new for a .22 revolver? It ought to work with just about anything, and without being shimmed (especially after going back once already). If it's an easy fix, you'd think they would have made it then.

 

[Miracle Man]

I've dealt with a lot and I mean A LOT of .22 semi-auto rifles that are very particular/finiky about what ammo they'll function with.

Brand A, runs like a top, brand B jam city, brand C fails to fire every 3rd round or so.

But it sounds to me your revolver must have an issue. I'd be very aggravated with a $700 gun that was a flip of a coin whether it shoots or not?

I'd be tempted to send it back again and say please test it thoroughly. Good luck

 

[Dump1567]

As I mentioned in my post above, I just picked one of these up used from a local shop. One thing I didn't mention, was inside the box, was a note about "8 lb. hammer spring & 14 lb. rebound spring". So I was concerned someone had monkeyed with the action. This is a great combo for a .38/.357, but not for a .22 lr.

My suspicions were confirmed today when I went to fire it. After getting through one cylinder, I started getting light strikes and failure to fires. Anticipating this might happen, I had brought out some old factory hammer springs from early 80's J frames I had replaced. Theses seem to be a heavier spring than the current 8.5 lb. that comes on modern J frames (the .22's come with 12 lb.). after removing the grip, I was able to replace the spring with an old J frame spring. All that was needed was a paperclip to hold the tension for removal, and I didn't even need to remove the side plate.

I than proceeded to fire 8 different loads of .22 from Federal, Remington, & CCI. I had 1 light strike with some Fed. target. I than proceeded to run 2 more cylinders of the same ammo just to verify it was the ammo and not the gun.

All that to say OP, try changing out the hammer spring with something heavier.

 

[Bill Lear]

I have not found the .22LR to be nearly as misfire prone as many online posts suggests. A misfire every few hundred might be attributed to the ammo, but one or more misfires per 8-round cylinder? No way it's the ammo - it's the gun - period.

I happen to own a Razorback .22LR belt-fed upper made by Lakeside Machine some time ago. The recommended ammo for it is "cheap" Blazer, LRN purchased in bulk quantities - any of the fancy stuff would be cost prohibitive to shoot - even in a .22LR! I have fired belts up to 500 rounds non-stop, both semi-auto, and full-auto at over 1,100 rounds per minute and the gun has demonstrated very few misfires over several thousand rounds - maybe three misfires. Is it possible the Razorback design is so superior that it overcomes all the defects of shoddily manufactured ammo? No.

I also have a M43c that I often choose to drop in a pocket for carry, and it has thus far been a stellar performer. I don't think it's ever misfired on any ammo.

So how can one example be near perfect while another is a malfunction machine? Simple, something is wrong with the gun. Knowing that you can focus the blame where it needs to be and stop conflating the issue with ammo choices.

I suspect on major reason .22LR guns used to be more reliable was because the firing pins generally protruded farther out, thus carrying all the hammer's energy into the case rim, but they also imprinted the barrel or chamber edge when dry fired. These days, everybody wants a gun they can dry fire to their heart's content, so gun makers have intentionally limited firing pin protrusion, and just a thousandths here or there can make a lot of difference. When the firing pin stops at a given depth, a certain amount of hammer energy is carried into the frame and not available to detonate the round.

That S&W reported they replaced the crane suggests to me there was a diagnosed problem with end play, or base clearance that prevented the firing pin from making a solid strike. On my 43c there is zero cylinder play when locked. Any play or movement would reduce ignition reliability. Clearance between loaded cartridges and the recoil shield is maybe .002" - tighter than the BC gap by far.

From your description it seems you need one or all of three things. More firing pin protrusion, more hammer spring power, or the cylinder shimmed to ensure recoil shield clearance is minimal. The easiest first fix is to replace the firing pin which can be found here.

Smith & Wesson Model 43C Firing Pin, 22LR: MGW

The nose shape is cut differently than stock to gain a deeper strike.

You MAY want to try a stronger hammer spring at the same time, or hold that idea in reserve as step two.

You also want to run the internals "wet" for minimum friction.

 

[Magnum_PI]

As I mentioned in my post above, I just picked one of these up used from a local shop. One thing I didn't mention, was inside the box, was a note about "8 lb. hammer spring & 14 lb. rebound spring". So I was concerned someone had monkeyed with the action. This is a great combo for a .38/.357, but not for a .22 lr.

My suspicions were confirmed today when I went to fire it. After getting through one cylinder, I started getting light strikes and failure to fires. Anticipating this might happen, I had brought out some old factory hammer springs from early 80's J frames I had replaced. Theses seem to be a heavier spring than the current 8.5 lb. that comes on modern J frames (the .22's come with 12 lb.). after removing the grip, I was able to replace the spring with an old J frame spring. All that was needed was a paperclip to hold the tension for removal, and I didn't even need to remove the side plate.

I than proceeded to fire 8 different loads of .22 from Federal, Remington, & CCI. I had 1 light strike with some Fed. target. I than proceeded to run 2 more cylinders of the same ammo just to verify it was the ammo and not the gun.

All that to say OP, try changing out the hammer spring with something heavier.

OP, I'd try this before sending it back and being without your gun for X amount of weeks again. I understand the principle of things, but I'd rather have my guns than being sent back to people who didn't fix it right the last time. Springs are cheap. WOLFF springs are often recommended and I've used them in various guns in the past and would recommend.

It's worth a shot BEFORE sending it back.

 

[Data]

@petepeterson

I think your best chance of having a reliable, 43c is to send it back to S&W. I am certain that they will replace it with new parts and much more, or they might replace it altogether with a new 43c. If you haven't sent your 43c back to S&W already, then I think you should email them, and list all the problems you have had with it. That way it will be documented and you will have more leverage to get things right with S&W. Your 43c is new, and you shouldn't have to modify or put any aftermarket parts on it to make it work. It's reasonable to expect the 43c to work reliably with all the original factory specs and parts. While there have been helpful suggestions listed above, I am guessing that you just want it to work without all the hassle of tweaking it. Certainly, it's very annoying having to send it back once again to get it fixed, but it's S&W's job to honor the warranty and to make things right with you. I do own the 43c and it's been very reliable... albeit, I have only fired the Federal Punch load through. For me, it's Punch or nothing.
Well, that is my two cents worth.

 

[petepeterson]

@petepeterson

I think your best chance of having a reliable, 43c is to send it back to S&W. I am certain that they will replace it with new parts and much more, or they might replace it altogether with a new 43c. If you haven't sent your 43c back to S&W already, then I think you should email them, and list all the problems you have had with it. That way it will be documented and you will have more leverage to get things right with S&W. Your 43c is new, and you shouldn't have to modify or put any aftermarket parts on it to make it work. It's reasonable to expect the 43c to work reliably with all the original factory specs and parts. While there have been helpful suggestions listed above, I am guessing that you just want it to work without all the hassle of tweaking it. Certainly, it's very annoying having to send it back once again to get it fixed, but it's S&W's job to honor the warranty and to make things right with you. I do own the 43c and it's been very reliable... albeit, I have only fired the Federal Punch load through. For me, it's Punch or nothing.
Well, that is my two cents worth.

Agreed- I sent it back this week. I appreciate all of the suggestions from everyone, and depending on how the 2nd trip goes, I maybe dipping into them. I'm fortunate enough to have other guns to use in that role, and the 43 usually gets put away come October anyway.
I'll update in a few weeks....

 

[Rodan]

I had a 43C and I don't think I ever got a full cylinder to fire every round, and often had 2-3 FTF out of a cylinder. Tried multiple ammo brands and loads, replaced firing pin and mainspring. Cleaned, cleaned and cleaned again. The only thing I didn't do was send it back to S&W (I bought it used), but from anecdotal reports here, that wasn't a reliable fix either.

My final conclusion was the gun just wasn't going to be reliable and I sold it.

There are enough reports here and elsewhere on 43C reliability issues for me to believe there is a design flaw, or production irregularities that are the root cause of the FTF problems.