Whelen 35 improved questions

[Blowncar]

Just got back from local gun show with a new friend. I picked up a 35 Whelen improved rifle. It has Mauser action 26.5 inch barrel and was too pretty to pass up for $550. It came with about 150 rounds of varying reloads. I am not at all familar with this round and I don't reload. examples of what came with it

4 boxes of mil case, primer cci lr, powder wc 846 48.6 grs, 200 gr sn hornady

3 boxes same case and primer, powder 4320 56.0grs, 200 gr sierra.

All boxes are labled and were load 10-14 years ago. Some have 30.06 cases.

What have I bought (lol), who can I buy loads from, can I use regular 35 whelen factory loads in it, good gun for pigs and elk? thanks

 

[arjay]

It's an old wildcat round built on a 30-06 case.You should be able to shoot factory loads in it and the brass will fireform to the chamber.As far as I know the ackley improved version is a handloading proposition. Let us know how it shoots.Did it come with the dies?

 

[358156hp]

Is it an Ackley Improved, or the Brown-Whelen? They're not interchangable, and there's a big difference between them. Hopefully you got the dies with it.

 

[cooperduper]

You should be able to fire factory ammo in it. Likely you will lose some small amount of accuracy. You will then have fire-formed cases you could reload. Maybe Lee makes a collet neck-sizer die and you wouldn't have to worry much about which wildcat you actually have...

 

[Blowncar]

No dies came with it but it did come with a very clean Leuplod Vari X II 3X9 scope. The barrell and all boxes just say Whelen 35 IMP. The stock is close to a tiger wood pattern and has a nice cheek pad. It is a long gun, a short armed guy would have issues. Guess for the money any shooter is going to be a good deal. So it is a 30.06 case that expands out and you basically put another bullet in the neck? Can use 35 Whelen factory ammo but not 30.06 correct? Will take to local gun shop next week to inspect, check rifling etc. Expect a little extra recoil over 30.06?

 

[arjay]

I'd say you did good on the price with that scope.I would guess the recoil would be a bit more than a stock 30-06,depending on the load.A decent gunsmith should be able to tell you which version you have.Perfect excuse to take up reloading.

 

[Marksman]

I would NOT shoot the reload ammo you got with the rifle! Pull the bullets and you will have a nice supply of fireformed brass and bullets with which to start reloading. I NEVER trust anyone else's handloads, not worth the chance of injuring yourself or bystanders and wrecking the rifle. The improved cartridge should be as good a cartridge as the standard round if not somewhat better. Although the Whelen can be loaded close to the performance level of the .375 H & H, I shoot more moderate loads in mine with bullets weighing less than 250gr.

 

[Alk8944]

Blowncar,

Chances are about 99-1 what you have is an Ackley version. The way to tell is simply compare the cartridges you have with a standard .30-06. If the neck is approximately the same length and the neck/shoulder junction in the same place it is a Whelan. If it is the Brown version the neck will be noticeably shorter, and slightly shorter than it's diameter.

The loads you say are marked on the reloads are quite reasonable for the cartridge. I would have a friend that does reload pull down 3-4 rounds of each and verify they are correctly marked. Usually I would say to not shoot them, but with a wildcat the situation is a little different.

My recommendation is either take up hand loading or sell it now to someone who does. 150 rounds don't go very far.

 

[exnodak]

I agree that I would not shoot those reloads. If you pull the bullets, you will have a stock of bullets and cases that you can use to reload again.
I have a standard .35 Whelen in the Remington 700 Classic persuasion. I have made brass for it from 30-06 with one pass through the .35 die, but you have enough ready formed brass to last a good long while.
My favorite load uses the 225 grain Sierra boat tail with IMR 4064. Enjoy shooting that fine rifle.

 

[lebomm]

I had a .35 Whelen (Ack. Imp.) built on a MkX Mauser action several years back, and I can tell you it's a dandy ! You can shoot std .35 Whelen ammo in it to good effect, and end up with fireformed cases. You can also fire .30-06 in that chamber to form cases, but accuracy will be nil. My best results were by loading a .30-06 case w/10.0 gr. Unique, then cornmeal to the base of the neck, then a tuft of Fiberfill to the mouth. Cases emerge at .35 cal., in the Ackley configuration, sometimes needing a light mouth trim to square them up. Every case I ever formed in my RCBS dies needed to be squared, usually at a considerable length loss. My rifle will cut cloverleafs at 100 yds with a 250 @ about 2500fps. Please keep us posted !

Larry

 

[Blowncar]

My real hobby is racing so I'll never have time to take up reloading unless I learn how to not sleep. Is there anyone on this board who can take my stuff, set it up and is interested in making a few bucks? The cases look identical to 30.06 cases in length. Would really like to keep it as it is pretty and I like my guns a little off, 257 roberts, 264 win mag.

 

[fltbed]

I’ve always been intrigued by the Ackley line of improved cartridges. The logic seems sound and looks good on paper. However, the few I’ve had the opportunity to chrono have been relatively…unimpressive.

Some of the designs based on older cartridges that were originally loaded to low chamber pressures (by today’s standards) show considerable velocity increases when improved and loaded to today’s higher pressure levels in strong modern actions. (i.e. 257 Roberts AI, 30-30 AI) The others…not so much.

The Ackley line of cartridges are really better suited for the advanced handloader that has the experience, tools and equipment to enjoy the caliber.

What I would recommend, (if you don’t plan on taking up handloading as a hobby) is selling the package to someone who does enjoy such endeavors, or, taking the rifle to a gunsmith and have it rebarreled to a caliber that you can buy ammo for.

Jeff

PS. If you insist on keeping the rifle and trying to get someone to load ammo for you, there were a few small, one man, ammo and brass company’s out there that will take your rifle (along with a considerable amount of cash, possibly more than you have invested in the rifle) and develop a handload for you. The few guys I knew of that did such things are no longer in the industry (probably insurance reasons) but I’m sure there must be someone out there that still does such things.

 

[Blowncar]

Pulled several of the rounds apart and they match pretty much in powder weight and bullet as the boxes say; but can't tell if the powder is correct. Since I have 200 or so formed rounds with bullets from 180-250 ready to go, I'm going to pull the bullets, dump the powder and have them reloaded with known safe loads.

local gun shop offered $100 profit for 24 hour investment. However, i'm going to keep this gun so when i move to idaho next year i can introduce it to a big elk

thanks everyone

 

[Troystat]

I think your biggest problem is that you have not posted pictures yet I am sure we can all give you much more accurate advise with pictures.

good luck

 

[Blowncar]

Going to have my kid show me how, lol.

 

[bwickens]

Another thing you may want to check is the rifling twist. Supposedly, anything slower than 1 in 14 won't stabilize heavier (250+) bullets. Of course, most of the available bullets out there are under 250gr, so it's pretty much a moot point.

 

[greenejc]

The Ackley Improved Whelen headspaces on the index point of the shoulder. If the neck is the same length and starts at the same point as the 30-06, or a piece of new .35 Whelen brass (Remington is the least expensive .35 brass) it is an improved Whelen. If the shoulder is farther forward, it is a Brown-Whelen, which is more complicated to fireform brass for. For the Improved Whelen, you can use regular brass, load it and fire it. You will then eject a .35 whelen improved case, perfectly fireformed. You won't lose accuracy. If it is a Brown Whelen you will need to neck it up to .375 and then neck it back down to .358 forming a false shoulder for the casing to headspace on, and then fire it. .35 Whelen improved dies can be had from Redding, RCBS, Lyman and Lee. They cost more than the regular dies. A 1 in 16 inch twist will stabilize the 250gr bullets, and in some rifles, the 300gr. bullets, but a 1 in 14 is better. For you, it doesn't matter. You will get best performance from 225gr and 250gr. bullets for elk, moose and bear. For deer, 200 and 225gr bullets will work well at 300, 225gr Sierras will work well to 450, 500 yds. With the Improved casing and a 26.5" barrel, you should get 2800fps from the Sierra Gameking, which makes it as flat as a 30-06 using 165gr boattail bullets out to 700yds. Have a gunsmith mike the chamber and then go shooting. I use the Sierra 225gr. and the 250gr Speer in my Whelen (standard chamber) and get 1" or less groups at 100yds.

 

[SMSgt]

Plan on taking up reloading or selling it. If you shoot much, reloading is a good shooting hobby to get into.

 

[mtgianni]

My real hobby is racing so I'll never have time to take up reloading unless I learn how to not sleep. Is there anyone on this board who can take my stuff, set it up and is interested in making a few bucks? The cases look identical to 30.06 cases in length. Would really like to keep it as it is pretty and I like my guns a little off, 257 roberts, 264 win mag.

If you posted location you might get someone near you to walk you through the basics and mentor you on their equipment. Otherwise it is shoot factory and hope. IME factory rds in an Ackley Improved chamber are not as accurate as factory in a factory chamber.

 

[greenejc]

You still haven't put a picture of the rifle up. I'd like to see it. Also, since you posted on it, you haven't updated on what you found out from the gunsmith. One way to check headspace on the rifle so you'll know if it is an improved or a Brown-Whelen is to smoke the standard Whelen cartridge or a 30-06 cartridge with a candle and chamber it. If you chamber it and it is tight when you do, or if it has a ring at the front of the shoulder near the shoulder-neck junction where the soot is worn off by chambering the round, the headspace is correct for the Ackley Improved, and its safe to fire standard .35 cartridges in. You will want to handload for this round, and when you have some Improved brass, you can go around 4 to 5% over max on your loads if you work up carefully. The Whelen round with bullets of 225gr to 275-300gr. will hammer anything including really big Brown Bear. If your barrel twist is 1 in 14, it will stabilize 300-310gr. bullets. 1 in 16 will stabilize up to 270-280gr. and maybe 300gr. bullets. Check out Whelen's Northwoods Trails on the internet and you will find a lot of useful info on handloading and pressure tests. He has done extensive testing of both loads and bullets in the Whelen.