Whelen 35 improved questions

[Blowncar]

Wow i forgot all about this thread, my apologies. I got rid of the race car, moved to Idaho (this year) and bought a Dillon 550B reloader. A buddy pulled down the original rounds and loaded me up we the following;

180gr Hornaday SSP over 61 grains Reloader 15 = 2846fps

200gr Hornaday FTX over 57 grains R-15 = 2716 fps

200gr. Barnes TSX over 58 grains R-15 = 2754 fps

I've shot each from sandbag rest and get an average of 1.15 MOA for 3 shot groups @100 yards. My friend is a much better shooter and he got right at 1.00.

I love this gun, especially after installing muzzle break (not pretty). Can shoot off 20 rounds and no soreness at all.

Can't hunt this winter but maybe spring black bear; thinking the Barnes.

I am starting to reload and had 1 concern. Case length for the 35 Whelen and the Improved 35 Whelen are the same (2.494) correct? Overall case length is the same as well?

 

[BruceM]

If you are still in doubt regarding the chambering, have a competent gunsmith make a chamber casting and measure.

I am starting to reload and had 1 concern. Case length for the 35 Whelen and the Improved 35 Whelen are the same (2.494) correct? Overall case length is the same as well?

I guess I don't understand the question??? Case length is case length and the measurement is made after the case is sized. The "trim to" length is usually 0.010" shorter.

Too bad about the installation of the muzzle brake.

Bruce

 

[AveragEd]

When most people think of an Ackley Improved version of a cartridge, velocity increase seems to be the primary consideration. It is a definite result of the case shape change but in fact, there are other advantages to Mr. Ackley's design that to me at least equal if not outweigh improved velocity.

For starters, one of the main causes of bottleneck rifle case failure is case stretching. When a cartridge of that type is fired, its "funnel" shape created by the taper in the body and the sloping shoulder almost promotes brass flow toward the neck. That in turn thins the case just above the case head and the dreaded bright ring of death starts to appear followed soon afterward by case head separation. The AI's straighter body walls and flatter shoulder angle, as illustrated by the photo below of my handloads in standard .243WIN and Ackley Improved, resist brass flow which results in much longer case life.

Another very real improvement is in accuracy. As the above photo also shows, one way the shoulder angle is flattened is by lowering the neck-shoulder junction, which yields a longer neck, something benchrest shooters consider paramount to good accuracy. You can also see a dark ring just below the AI case's shoulder - that's where the original shoulder stopped.

I have two Ackley Improved rifles, a .243AI varmint rifle with a 27" stainless fluted McGowan barrel and a .280AI with a 25" stainless fluted McGowan sporter barrel, both built on blueprinted Remington Model 700 actions. The .280's is factory engraved and has a factory detachable box magazine.

I floated the .243's barrel in a Hogue Overmolded stock myself and it shoots tiny one-hole groups at 100 yards with the now-discontinued 65-grain Berger BT match bullets at an average MV of 3,939fps. The .280 is bolted into an unaltered Remington Model 700 factory laminated stock with zero bedding being done - the pressure tabs in the forend are even still there. It shoots Berger 140-grain VLDs into under .400" at an average MV of 3,099fps with a powder charge nowhere near maximum. Some day, I'll bed it better or at least float the barrel and I wouldn't be afraid to bet on seeing one-hole groups from it as well.

I enjoy my Ackley Improved cartridges and think my next one is going to be a 6.5/284AI or maybe I'll just have my .260REM converted.

Ed

 

[fredj338]

Your going to have to learn to reload for tht one. I wouldn't shoot he reloads that came with, just not in my nature to have that much trust in people I don't know. Pull them down, toss the powder, save the rest. Then get a ss reloading setup & get the rifle up & running. You can use std whelen data & work up.

 

[Blowncar]

I was looking at my Lyman manual and see the 35 Whelen overall case length listed. Of course there is no listing for the AI case length. I assume they are the same but was wondering if any AI experienced re-loaders like them the same , or a bit longer/shorter than a standard(non ai) case.

I have a good selection of "known safely loaded rounds" plus I shot 60 35whelen factory rounds and have more fireformed cases. Only need to trim .05 off the spent cases to get back to spec.

 

[gwpercle]

Keep it, you never know what will change in your life and one day hanloading may be one of them.
One of the pluses for Ackley Improved rounds is you can always fire the standard factory 35 Whelen in the rifle, might loose a little velocity but not enough to make a real difference. 250 grain bullet at 2200 fps is still a force to be reconed with.
Be sure and save those empties....Gary

 

[fredj338]

I was looking at my Lyman manual and see the 35 Whelen overall case length listed. Of course there is no listing for the AI case length. I assume they are the same but was wondering if any AI experienced re-loaders like them the same , or a bit longer/shorter than a standard(non ai) case.

I have a good selection of "known safely loaded rounds" plus I shot 60 35whelen factory rounds and have more fireformed cases. Only need to trim .05 off the spent cases to get back to spec.

You don't wan your ai length longer than factory whelen. Custom chambers can vary a lot so pay attention to the length. Slightly short is better than too long.

 

[greenejc]

The factory Whelen case and the Ackley Improved case are exactly the same length, and are made from the 30-06 case, which is exactly the same length. The overall length for the Whelen is the maximum case length listed for SAAMI specifications for the Whelen and the 30-06 parent case. If the casing is longer, trim it using one of the trimming tools provided by Lee, Lyman, Redding or RCBS. You want all your casings below the maximum length, and its best to trim all of them to a uniform length. Accuracy will be improved and the case mouths will be squared. Try the Speer 250gr. bullet and RL 15 for a really effective elk and bear load. The Lee reloading manual lists the max load as 59.5 grains for this bullet with a muzzle Velocity of 2550fps. I get around 2650 in my Remington CDL. The Ackley Improved version of the 35 Whelen has around a 100fps edge over my regular one, and it has a much longer case life. I had an 8mm-06 Ackley Improved that pushed the 185gr bullet to 2875fps without any trouble at all. This is inside the lower edge of the .300 Win Mag range for that bullet weight, but the real advantage was case life.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

The Whelen Improved is outside my knowledge but the .35 Whelen is not - I had an 8mm Yugo 98 Mauser customized/sporterized in the 1990s into .35 Whelen. It is DEATH on pigs. I could go on and on about the custom rifle itself, because it's gorgeous, I have a Leupold 1.5 x 4 scope on it (I forget where it's set but I never change it), but my point is that I had it built for elk, sadly so far unused for that, but I have used it on feral hogs with spectacular results.

***GRJ***

 

[Blowncar]

pics finally lol

 

[greenejc]

You might also try Hornaday .35 bullets and the very excellent 225 gr. Gameking by Sierra. I shoot this bullet into less than 1/2 inch at 100yds using Remington casings, Remington 9 1/2 primers and 60.5 grains of RL15, which chronographs to 2725fps from my Remington CDL's 24" barrel. It is a hammer when it hits.

 

[Augie1]

I lucked into a custom rifle built in the early 80's built on a 1918 Springfield 03 action with a 1982 McGowan Barrel in 35 Whelen Imp.
Have found the 35 Whelen Imp to be a very easy wildcat to load for. I neck up 30-06 brass or use 35 Whelen brass in a Redding die and just fire form, accuracy is very good even with the brass that has not been fire formed yet.
Have used the 225 and 250 grain Speers and the 200 grain Hornady, rifle is not picky and shoots any of the bullets with excellent accuracy. RL-15 powder works very well in this cartridge.
Pics of the rifle and a 20 shot 100yd target from the other day, fire forming 20 rounds using 200 grain Hornadys, first shot high and right was due to rifle previously being sighted in using 250 grain Speers, had to adjust scope after first shot.

 

[Magload]

pics finally lol

That is one fine looking stock. I love a wood stock and in my youth in the 60s I used to make them and do hand checkering. Wood stocks have that warm feeling when you lay your cheek on then maybe even better then a good women. Don

 

[Master Gunsmith]

Just got back from local gun show with a new friend. I picked up a 35 Whelen improved rifle. It has Mauser action 26.5 inch barrel and was too pretty to pass up for $550. It came with about 150 rounds of varying reloads. I am not at all familar with this round and I don't reload. examples of what came with it

4 boxes of mil case, primer cci lr, powder wc 846 48.6 grs, 200 gr sn hornady

3 boxes same case and primer, powder 4320 56.0grs, 200 gr sierra.

All boxes are labled and were load 10-14 years ago. Some have 30.06 cases.

What have I bought (lol), who can I buy loads from, can I use regular 35 whelen factory loads in it, good gun for pigs and elk? thanks

Hang on to that Whelen, used mine in Africa 3 trips and shot plains game with great success my PH was impressed with the accuracy and stopping power of the cartridge. The Whelen both standard and improved was way beyond it's time. P.S. was shooting 225 Gr. bullets.