When Can You Shoot for Self Defense?

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Hmmm, I thought they had a Castle Law there...
or is this Director talking out his rear end...?
Either way, if it is *possible* to safely withdraw without firing, then by all means,
do so as you dont want favorite carry gun confiscated and spend the next year
in a police evidence room and have to get an attorney if the DA is a career anti-
gunner who thinks he may be able to get you on some technicality...

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When Can You Shoot for Self Defense?

Reported by: Mallory Hardin, KARK 4 News

Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009 @07:09pm CST
http://arkansasmatters.com/con...text/news?cid=204091


A suspect is shot in a Wal-Mart parking lot,
by a man he was trying to rob. It happened
Monday night in the Wal-Mart parking lot on
Cantrell road.

Police say a Little Rock man, whose identity
we're withholding, shot Jonathan Terry, the
suspect was armed and trying to steal the
man's wife's purse.

Terry's been charged, along with two women.
He's in guarded custody after being shot in
the backside. The man who was defending
his wife had a concealed weapons permit.
For those that carry concealed weapons,
when is it legal for you to shoot someone?


At Fort Thompson in Sherwood, gun sales are way up.

"I've probably seen more in the past year, than in the past two years, been through the roof,"
John Hutley at Fort Thompson said. That means more Arkansans could be walking around
with concealed weapons, ready to protect themselves. And you may not realize it, because
the purpose of a concealed carry weapon is to conceal that it's on you.

"You might walk into Wal-Mart, and half the people in the store have guns and you don't
know it," Chuck Lange, director of the Arkansas Sheriffs' Association said. But when is it
legal to protect yourself and shoot?

"If you have an avenue of escape, if you could escape to complete safety, you could not
use deadly force," Lange said. Chuck Lange is the director of the Arkansas Sheriffs' Assoc-
iation. He also teaches concealed carry weapon classes. He says opening fire for self
defense is a complicated matter.

"There is no 1,2,3. It's an issue where you make a snap judgment in seconds, where the
courts can take months, and sometimes years trying to decide if you should have used
deadly force," Lange said.

He says each situation is different. But in every case, you must make sure there isn't any
other way to escape. That's why they emphasize the seriousness of the responsibility of
carrying a concealed weapon.

"You have to decide, I am taking responsibility for carrying weapon, I'm going to have it on
person. There might be cause for me to use that weapon, if it's safe and I am legal in using
that weapon at that time," Lange said.
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Hmmm, I thought they had a Castle Law there...
or is this Director talking out his rear end...?
Either way, if it is *possible* to safely withdraw without firing, then by all means,
do so as you dont want favorite carry gun confiscated and spend the next year
in a police evidence room and have to get an attorney if the DA is a career anti-
gunner who thinks he may be able to get you on some technicality...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
When Can You Shoot for Self Defense?

Reported by: Mallory Hardin, KARK 4 News

Tuesday, Mar 24, 2009 @07:09pm CST
http://arkansasmatters.com/con...text/news?cid=204091


A suspect is shot in a Wal-Mart parking lot,
by a man he was trying to rob. It happened
Monday night in the Wal-Mart parking lot on
Cantrell road.

Police say a Little Rock man, whose identity
we're withholding, shot Jonathan Terry, the
suspect was armed and trying to steal the
man's wife's purse.

Terry's been charged, along with two women.
He's in guarded custody after being shot in
the backside. The man who was defending
his wife had a concealed weapons permit.
For those that carry concealed weapons,
when is it legal for you to shoot someone?


At Fort Thompson in Sherwood, gun sales are way up.

"I've probably seen more in the past year, than in the past two years, been through the roof,"
John Hutley at Fort Thompson said. That means more Arkansans could be walking around
with concealed weapons, ready to protect themselves. And you may not realize it, because
the purpose of a concealed carry weapon is to conceal that it's on you.

"You might walk into Wal-Mart, and half the people in the store have guns and you don't
know it," Chuck Lange, director of the Arkansas Sheriffs' Association said. But when is it
legal to protect yourself and shoot?

"If you have an avenue of escape, if you could escape to complete safety, you could not
use deadly force," Lange said. Chuck Lange is the director of the Arkansas Sheriffs' Assoc-
iation. He also teaches concealed carry weapon classes. He says opening fire for self
defense is a complicated matter.

"There is no 1,2,3. It's an issue where you make a snap judgment in seconds, where the
courts can take months, and sometimes years trying to decide if you should have used
deadly force," Lange said.

He says each situation is different. But in every case, you must make sure there isn't any
other way to escape. That's why they emphasize the seriousness of the responsibility of
carrying a concealed weapon.

"You have to decide, I am taking responsibility for carrying weapon, I'm going to have it on
person. There might be cause for me to use that weapon, if it's safe and I am legal in using
that weapon at that time," Lange said.
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In Tennessee, the Self Defense law (TCA 39-11-611) states there is no duty to retreat before the use or threatened use of deadly force. The Arkansas law may be different.
 
Yea, It's likely to cost you at least $50,000 even if you are found not guilty. I've been told that in Virginia, the key phrase is "I felt my life was in danger" and then "I need to speak to a lawyer."
I hope that I never have to say those words but it's better than "I'm sorry for your loss" being said to my family.
 
I love to read the "Armed Citizen" section in my monthly NRA. It is obivous how the law and interputation changes from one area to another
 
Under the deadly force statute, Ark. Code Ann. § 5-2-607:

(a) A person is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if he reasonably believes that the other person is:

(1) Committing or about to commit a felony involving force or violence;

(2) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force; or

(3) Imminently endangering his or her life or imminently about to victimize the person as described in § 9-15-103 (a)(2), from the continuation of a pattern of domestic abuse. For the purposes of this section "domestic abuse" shall be that described in § 9-15-103 (a).

(b) A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using that force with complete safety:

(1) By retreating, except that a person is not required to retreat if he is in his dwelling and was not the original aggressor, or if he is a law enforcement officer or a person assisting at the direction of a law enforcement officer; or

(2) By surrendering possession of property to a person claiming a lawful right thereto.
 
Dave, I think you are misreading what Lange is saying. I believe he is talking, generally, about the duty to retreat and the use of deadly force, which Barb has posted below yours.

I do not believe he is talking specifically about THIS shooter. While I have no knowledge of AR's law, I believe there is no requirement to abandon one's family thus leaving them in danger.

Florida's old duty to retreat case law did not require such a stupid action.

Now, of course, we have the newer laws (since '05) and no duty to retreat.

Bob
 
If you are somewhere you have a legal right to be, retreat would be to gain a tactical advantage.

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Yeah, Dave, but that State still has the old retreat requirement. Under that rule, one must retreat before using deadly force if he can do so safely.

Lots different in States with the "castle doctrine" expanded to include any place one has a right to be. The retreat rule never applied, in any State I am aware of, to LEOs, but did to non-LEOS.

Bob
 
But how do you KNOW you are completely safe, just because you gave up the purse? Perp may not want any witnesses. That would tell ME that there is no COMPLETELY SAFE escape.
 
I just dont understand this nit picking. To me it is very elimentry. I will never shoot anybody unless to save my life or someone elses. I will see where I stand after that.
I am sure I have been "justified" shooting someone at least two or three times in my life, but felt I could, and did, handle the event without killing them.
Either you have to or you dont.
 
Originally posted by feralmerril:
I just dont understand this nit picking. To me it is very elimentry. I will never shoot anybody unless to save my life or someone elses. I will see where I stand after that.
I am sure I have been "justified" shooting someone at least two or three times in my life, but felt I could, and did, handle the event without killing them.
Either you have to or you dont.

+1 million!!!

Anyone who has ever carried a gun for a living should be able to say the same...and so should those who carry a gun by choice.

Sound words of wisdom, as usual, from feralmerril!!!

Be safe.
 
Originally posted by roundgunner:
"If you have an avenue of escape, if you could escape to complete safety, you could not
use deadly force," Lange said. Chuck Lange is the director of the Arkansas Sheriffs' Assoc-
iation. He also teaches concealed carry weapon classes. He says opening fire for self
defense is a complicated matter.
This statement by itself says AR does not have the newer statutes commonly called "Stand Your Ground" law. Generally, they say you can defend yourself anywhere you have a right to be and you are protected from criminal and civil actions. The trend started in FL in 2005 and IIRC is law now in about twenty other states.

Bob

Bob
 
Originally posted by EvelMe:
But how do you KNOW you are completely safe, just because you gave up the purse? Perp may not want any witnesses. That would tell ME that there is no COMPLETELY SAFE escape.
Ohio has castle doctrine. You have no duty to retreat from your home or automobile. Elsewhere, you must retreat if you can do so in "perfect safety". I don't claim to have been any great shakes as an infantry officer, but I certainly took to heart my ROTC instructors' admonitions that "nobody can outrun a bullet". Call me eccentric, but getting shot in the back, trying to outrun a bullet seems neither safe nor perfect.

Anybody who wants to put their lives in the hands of somebody who uses a gun to threaten the lives of innocent people in order to take things to which he isn't entitled is certainly welcome to. As for me, I've NEVER considered trusting in the judgement and decency of armed robbers ANYTHING but a VERY bad gamble with losing odds and no chance at all to win back your "losses".

If ANY good came out of 9/11, it was the sudden realization that "just do what the guy says" can get you and a lot of other people killed VERY, VERY dead. I think the majority of Americans would rather be remembered for having gone down swinging, than for having died politely.
 
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