When I screw up I go big.
- Thread starter mmb617
- Start date
The GOOD news is that those loads are 9mm..............
with a smooth wall bullet.
Not a 38 Special or .357 magnum with a CRIMP !!!!!
They will come apart a LOT easier............
but do they need to ?
Good luck figuring it out.
with a smooth wall bullet.
Not a 38 Special or .357 magnum with a CRIMP !!!!!
They will come apart a LOT easier............
but do they need to ?
Good luck figuring it out.
We all make mistakes. I like my Little Dandy powder measure whenever I can use it. For anyone who doesn't know, it uses a series of 26 fixed rotors so it's pretty consistent. Next is the Uniflow if I don't have the right rotor.
But, yeah, I'll add to the chorus saying you can't reliably weigh each round and find the problem children. Breaking them down is just tuition in the school of hard knocks.
But, yeah, I'll add to the chorus saying you can't reliably weigh each round and find the problem children. Breaking them down is just tuition in the school of hard knocks.
308 Scout
Member
Everybody calm down a bit before telling him to pull down 1,000 cartridges.
We don't know what powder he was using or what "overloading by a fair amount" may be. A fair amount over a starting load? A fair amount using a slow burning powder? More information regarding the powder charge, primer, bullet, etc. is in order.
We don't know what powder he was using or what "overloading by a fair amount" may be. A fair amount over a starting load? A fair amount using a slow burning powder? More information regarding the powder charge, primer, bullet, etc. is in order.
Wow, that's a real bummer! 
Sadly, as has been stated already, I can't see how you can realistically expect to weigh them & feel assured you found all the overcharged ones.
I'll second the idea, if they're not compressed loads, that they might could be shot in a pistol strong enough for them. Lots of pistols can handle MAJOR power loads with pressures in the mid 40K psi range. Just depends on how you've got those cartridges assembled.
Otherwise I'd be tempted to just trash them. Pulling a 1000 rds. is a crazy lot of work.
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Being mildly "charge weight" paranoid, I load off my Charge Master 1500 & do a sanity check every 10th load on the M5 beam scale sitting right beside it. I use "check weights" to verify they both read then same.
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Sadly, as has been stated already, I can't see how you can realistically expect to weigh them & feel assured you found all the overcharged ones.
I'll second the idea, if they're not compressed loads, that they might could be shot in a pistol strong enough for them. Lots of pistols can handle MAJOR power loads with pressures in the mid 40K psi range. Just depends on how you've got those cartridges assembled.
Otherwise I'd be tempted to just trash them. Pulling a 1000 rds. is a crazy lot of work.
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Being mildly "charge weight" paranoid, I load off my Charge Master 1500 & do a sanity check every 10th load on the M5 beam scale sitting right beside it. I use "check weights" to verify they both read then same.
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ACORN
Member
Buy an elbow brace.
OP
mmb617
Member
First let me say that I am blown away by the number of responses (mostly positive) to my mistake, and the amount of well thought out advice given. I really didn't expect this level of support.
I'll try to address a couple things brought up here. The 9mm being reloaded included both 115 and 124 grain FMJ bullets which were loaded with CFE pistol powder. When I first saw the problem the powder load was more than the maximum listed in the Hodgdon table so no question those rounds need to come apart.
When I talked about weighing the rounds to try and determine whether they needed to come apart it's because I'm not sure exactly when the problem started. I've only been reloading since the beginning of the year but have changed the setting on the powder measure a number of times as I switched between 9mm and 223 loading. I know for sure that at first I had checked the zero on the scale as well as looked up the VMD setting to double check, and we've been shooting those rounds without any indication of a problem.
About a month ago I bought a second powder measure so I could keep one set up for 9mm and the other for 223 as those are the only two calibers I reload at this point. Somewhere along the line I set the 9mm measure up going by the charge weight showing on my Lee balance scale which unknown to me was not correctly zeroed. And I didn't double check the VMD which would have shown the problem. Big mistake on my part, I know that now. I just don't know exactly when this happened.
I have my reloads pretty much lined up by chronological order so working backwards I should be able to find out where the problem started and loads done before that should be ok. I have already separated those earlier loads by headstamp and made up check rounds with the correct charges. My thinking is that by comparing the suspect loaded rounds to what I know to be correctly loaded ones I should be able to tell if they are good. If I don't think I am getting clear evidence of which are good and which are bad I will pull them all.
I've read opinions advocating both the collet puller and inertial puller as being best. I have an inertial puller and have ordered a collet puller which I got today but unfortunately the proper collet for it isn't scheduled for delivery till Wednesday. So I can't compare them yet.
I started pulling ones I know are bad yesterday with the inertial puller and it's not as bad as I thought it would be. I was hitting it on the corner of my bench which has an angle iron frame and wood top but it took 10-15 hits to dislodge a bullet. I then put a 25 lb plate from my barbell set on the table and hit the hammer on that which usually did the job in 3 strikes, not so bad. The main problem is that I lose powder out the top on every round. Not a lot, but the collet puller would in theory preserve all the powder making it the better option, perhaps.
At any rate I pulled about 150 bullets yesterday and it went faster than I would have thought. If I have to do it that way it's definitely possible.
I actually have more like 2k rounds loaded but I'm assuming the ones loaded last month are ok, but they all will be weight checked. As previously mentioned they have been shooting without problem and I'm 99% sure they are good, the weight check is just because I'm now a little paranoid.
Going forward since I bought a digital scale and still have the balance beam as well as fully intending to watch the VMD on the powder measure I will have a triple check on anything I do. That should be sufficient.
Any new skill has a learning curve. I hope that I am now over the hump on this one, and future mistakes will be smaller ones.
I'll try to address a couple things brought up here. The 9mm being reloaded included both 115 and 124 grain FMJ bullets which were loaded with CFE pistol powder. When I first saw the problem the powder load was more than the maximum listed in the Hodgdon table so no question those rounds need to come apart.
When I talked about weighing the rounds to try and determine whether they needed to come apart it's because I'm not sure exactly when the problem started. I've only been reloading since the beginning of the year but have changed the setting on the powder measure a number of times as I switched between 9mm and 223 loading. I know for sure that at first I had checked the zero on the scale as well as looked up the VMD setting to double check, and we've been shooting those rounds without any indication of a problem.
About a month ago I bought a second powder measure so I could keep one set up for 9mm and the other for 223 as those are the only two calibers I reload at this point. Somewhere along the line I set the 9mm measure up going by the charge weight showing on my Lee balance scale which unknown to me was not correctly zeroed. And I didn't double check the VMD which would have shown the problem. Big mistake on my part, I know that now. I just don't know exactly when this happened.
I have my reloads pretty much lined up by chronological order so working backwards I should be able to find out where the problem started and loads done before that should be ok. I have already separated those earlier loads by headstamp and made up check rounds with the correct charges. My thinking is that by comparing the suspect loaded rounds to what I know to be correctly loaded ones I should be able to tell if they are good. If I don't think I am getting clear evidence of which are good and which are bad I will pull them all.
I've read opinions advocating both the collet puller and inertial puller as being best. I have an inertial puller and have ordered a collet puller which I got today but unfortunately the proper collet for it isn't scheduled for delivery till Wednesday. So I can't compare them yet.
I started pulling ones I know are bad yesterday with the inertial puller and it's not as bad as I thought it would be. I was hitting it on the corner of my bench which has an angle iron frame and wood top but it took 10-15 hits to dislodge a bullet. I then put a 25 lb plate from my barbell set on the table and hit the hammer on that which usually did the job in 3 strikes, not so bad. The main problem is that I lose powder out the top on every round. Not a lot, but the collet puller would in theory preserve all the powder making it the better option, perhaps.
At any rate I pulled about 150 bullets yesterday and it went faster than I would have thought. If I have to do it that way it's definitely possible.
I actually have more like 2k rounds loaded but I'm assuming the ones loaded last month are ok, but they all will be weight checked. As previously mentioned they have been shooting without problem and I'm 99% sure they are good, the weight check is just because I'm now a little paranoid.
Going forward since I bought a digital scale and still have the balance beam as well as fully intending to watch the VMD on the powder measure I will have a triple check on anything I do. That should be sufficient.
Any new skill has a learning curve. I hope that I am now over the hump on this one, and future mistakes will be smaller ones.
max503
Member
This is an essential practice.
Thanks for the update, mmb617. As you've found out, whacking the inertial puller on a rigid item helps a lot. I hit a big vice on my bench. Laws of physics! Also, keep an eye on the bullet as it dislodges. You'll see when it's almost ready to come loose and go with light whacks at that point. Keeps from shaking powder out of the puller.
One more piece of advice. I suggest as you learn reloading, that you stick to small batches. Of course, fixing mistakes is easier. But also, it's worthwhile to mess with different powders, charges and bullets. That's a benefit of reloading - you get to tune your loads.
One more piece of advice. I suggest as you learn reloading, that you stick to small batches. Of course, fixing mistakes is easier. But also, it's worthwhile to mess with different powders, charges and bullets. That's a benefit of reloading - you get to tune your loads.
Couple of thoughts; my RCBS 5-10 lives on a small table on the bench and sleeps under an inverted plastic shoe box. The only time it leaves the table is when it gets cleaned. At the beginning of my charging routine, I zero it every time. I have seen .1 variations in zero from time to time (earth settling under my shop? Change in the magnetic fields/gravity? ). But I make sure before I weigh any powder the scale is checked...
I don't pull bullets often, but when I do I prefer an impact type. One practice I learned a while back was to use a lead ingot/puck as an anvil for the hammer type tool. The lead is way quieter and does not deaden the impact enough to hinder bullet pulling/movement. I did pull a bunch (125-150) older Greek military ammo to reuse the brass and just did a few each day. Sometimes I held the puck in my left hand, hammering with the tool in my right hand (I often use a muffin pan for ingots after I clean some alloy) and that was much quieter than banging on the puck/ingot when it's laying on the bench. Mebbe because I was a lifelong machinist/mechanic I really dislike hammering on cement or when using a mallet, hammering on steel...
). But I make sure before I weigh any powder the scale is checked...I don't pull bullets often, but when I do I prefer an impact type. One practice I learned a while back was to use a lead ingot/puck as an anvil for the hammer type tool. The lead is way quieter and does not deaden the impact enough to hinder bullet pulling/movement. I did pull a bunch (125-150) older Greek military ammo to reuse the brass and just did a few each day. Sometimes I held the puck in my left hand, hammering with the tool in my right hand (I often use a muffin pan for ingots after I clean some alloy) and that was much quieter than banging on the puck/ingot when it's laying on the bench. Mebbe because I was a lifelong machinist/mechanic I really dislike hammering on cement or when using a mallet, hammering on steel...
I second this suggestion. You get to buy a new gun. [emoji3]
Also if using the kinetic bullet puller, earmuffs for sure!
robert1804
Member
If the collet puller gets the bullets without damage, I would pull all of them down. Otherwise, I'd trash them. A Ruger Blackhawk 9/357 is an option only if those rounds are not overcharged. Overly hot 9mm loads will stick cases in a Ruger convertible revolver. Such stuck cases are more hassle to remove than using an inertia puller.
OP
mmb617
Member
Quick update. In the interest of safety I have decided to pull all the 9mm rounds I have on hand, about 2200 at the start. Using the inertial hammer I've done about 350 of them so far. I can do about 50 per half hour using this method. I expect to be done in about a week or so.
To break the monotony I break down 50 then reload them, triple checking the powder weight. The collet puller is scheduled to arrive tomorrow so I'll see if that way is better at that time. These are FMJ rounds so I don't think it will tear up the bullets but I don't know if it'll be able to get a grip on them. It would be nice to not lose any of the powder if it does work. I'll let you know later.
To break the monotony I break down 50 then reload them, triple checking the powder weight. The collet puller is scheduled to arrive tomorrow so I'll see if that way is better at that time. These are FMJ rounds so I don't think it will tear up the bullets but I don't know if it'll be able to get a grip on them. It would be nice to not lose any of the powder if it does work. I'll let you know later.
gwpercle
Member
Rule #1 - Zero your scale every time you use it , every time...
If you stop and leave the bench for a few minutes...check the zero .
When the earth rotates it will throw the scale off so check the zero often, become paranoid - OCD and anal when it comes to powder weighing and dispensing . Check , double check and triple check , visual checks of the powder level and anytime something doesn't "feel" right , dump the powder and do it over ....this is the one part of reloading that matters a lot . Also can save you from pulling down a bunch of loaded ammo .
Gary
If you stop and leave the bench for a few minutes...check the zero .
When the earth rotates it will throw the scale off so check the zero often, become paranoid - OCD and anal when it comes to powder weighing and dispensing . Check , double check and triple check , visual checks of the powder level and anytime something doesn't "feel" right , dump the powder and do it over ....this is the one part of reloading that matters a lot . Also can save you from pulling down a bunch of loaded ammo .
Gary
FWIW about pulling loaded rounds; I had a few 9mm rounds with a questionable OAL. I would have fired them but I had nothing to do, was bored and the virus scare is in full swing here in my small town, so yesterday I hammered a few apart. I used a lead ingot on my bench but the stereo I was listening to at the time would occasionally skip from the impact on the bench. I got a hand towel, folded it up and placed it under the ingot. Worked great. No need to pound more to get the bullets loose and it was even quieter and the stereo didn't skip (the Do Wop CD was happier). I got the idea from an old video of Mr. Lee using a Lee loader. The "anvil" he used was a piece of some hard surface padded on the bottom with foam rubber...
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Patrick L
Member
Two things. If at all possible, put your scale on an eye level shelf attached to the wall, with no contact with the bench. That will minimize vibration from the bench affecting things. I put a short shelf up for the scale only.
As for the poster who mentioned pulled cast bullets being encrusted with powder, QUICKLY play a propane torch over them, so fast the lube doesn't melt. Powder goes poof immediately, lube stays put. You really do need to do something, that powder is likely enough to screw things up.
As for the poster who mentioned pulled cast bullets being encrusted with powder, QUICKLY play a propane torch over them, so fast the lube doesn't melt. Powder goes poof immediately, lube stays put. You really do need to do something, that powder is likely enough to screw things up.
SLT223
Member
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I hardly have enough time to reload, let alone redo 1000 rounds. When you start weighing them you will quickly see the problem. I’d discard them, and move on. Offer them as components to the guys working the local range or something. You’re at an inflection point, you either blew some money and time, or saved some money and blew a whole lotta time. Money is easier for me to come by, so I’d trash them.
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OP
mmb617
Member
The bullets I'm working with are FMJ so no powder is sticking to them at all.
I'm in the opposite situation. Money is tight but since I'm retired I have lots of time. Trashing them would only occur if there were absolutely no other options.
UPS just dropped off the collet puller so I'm ready to see how it works. Update later.
