where can I carry?

[cyclepath]

Hey all. I live in Washington State and have been trying to find a good solid answer to where it is legal to CC. I have found some RCW's saying you can't carry in Schools, places that sell alcohol that prohibits anyone under 21yrs of age, court houses, mental hospitals, .
How does it work with private businesses? like the ones that "suggest" you not bring firearms to there premises? Is it really the law that you can't carry in them or just them trying to keep you out with your ccw? I'm talking about places like movie theaters, restaurants, hospitals, malls, ect......

So any federal buildings, local law enforcement buildings and State buildings I understand as a no-carry area.
I did read that State parks, National parks and local city parks are ok to carry.. Does this sound about right?

I'm not sure if this has been covered before ( i'm sure it has) but I couldn't find any good info on it..

Thanks for any input.....

 

[noyo55]

Try asking on the Northwest Firearms Community website, which services Oregon and Washington, someone there will give you chapter and verse.

 

[Cal44]

Welcome to the forum.

The trouble with this sort of question is do you want to risk losing your ccw (or worse) based on what people say on an internet forum?

I suggest either read your states laws yourself, or talk to a lawyer familiar with wa firearms laws.

 

[B3500]

Every state is different and is why taking a ccw class on it can be a good if for nothing else to learn first hand what is legal or not. If you have to figure it out for yourself, it's time to hit your state's ccw information.

A good place to start is Handgunlaw.us

It will give you a synopsis and provide links to where you can find out more information on your state's laws.

 

[dullh]

Found this for ya...

WA State Licensing (DOL) Official Site: Concealed Pistol License

Legal advice you get on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it...running afoul of these laws could get you anything from a slap on the wrist to jail time.

I took that link from your very own state's Department of Licensing.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I have had a Washington state CC permit for over 20 years.
The places you sited are the only ones you can't OC or CC in.
Any other place that have signs up, you are not breaking any law.
Only thing they can do is ask you to leave. But then if your pistol is concealed, how would they know?
I ignore such signs myself......

 

[cyclepath]

Thanks for all the replies and info. I have read the RCW's for my states carry laws but there is so much fine print type of stuff and reworded stuff it sometimes makes me second guess it.

The one main area I was unclear about was private property business and such. I need to keep reading up and I know a few LEO's I will be asking.

Thanks again

 

[nocents]

I have had a Washington state CC permit for over 20 years.
The places you sited are the only ones you can't OC or CC in.
Any other place that have signs up, you are not breaking any law.
Only thing they can do is ask you to leave. But then if your pistol is concealed, how would they know?
I ignore such signs myself......

+1 on this advise......obey the law but carry concealed....

 

[Jaysq]

Thanks for all the replies and info. I have read the RCW's for my states carry laws but there is so much fine print type of stuff and reworded stuff it sometimes makes me second guess it.

The one main area I was unclear about was private property business and such. I need to keep reading up and I know a few LEO's I will be asking.

Thanks again

LEO's are not necessarily a good source of the law. A CCW instructor might be a better source.

 

[cyclepath]

LEO's are not necessarily a good source of the law. A CCW instructor might be a better source.

Good point. I have a few friends who are LEO's so asking would be easy but I know that it's up to me to find out the "laws" about it..

Thanks for keeping my mind open to all sides

 

[growr]

Always, always, always, Look it up!! Print it out and carry it in your vehicle in a file folder.....I do this for every state I travel in....handgunlaw.us does a great job.

Randy

 

[ibewbull]

WA State

Search Resultshe

Should be on here somewhere.

 

[Rastoff]

Yeah, it's complicated. The law sucks when regular guys try to read it. It tends to be very convoluted, constantly referring to other sections. It can take an hour just to learn one thing.

Even so, you must read the laws in your state yourself. Gary does a great job with Handgunlaw.us, but he isn't omniscient. Go to compilation websites to get an idea on where to start, then read the actual laws themselves.

Here in CA the example of the State buildings is a good one. The law very clearly says:

171b. (a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part 1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year, or in the state prison:
(1) Any firearm.

Yes, it's all like that and there's no easy way to pair it down. The short, but incomplete, version is you can't carry in a State building. Or can you?

If you continue reading, you'll find this:

(b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to, or affect, any of the following:
(3) A person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5 of Title 4 of Part 6.

So, a person with a valid concealed carry license CAN carry in a State building.

Remember, that is the California Penal Code. You'll have to dig into the WA code to find what it says for you. Start here though: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/washington.pdf

 

[Cal44]

So, a person with a valid concealed carry license CAN carry in a State building.

Except there are some state buildings that are excepted and you can't carry there -- including the state Capitol -- or even it's grounds.

At least that is my reading, and also was stated by my CCW instructor.

The laws are convoluted and complicated.

 

[Rastoff]

Except there are some state buildings that are excepted and you can't carry there -- including the state Capitol -- or even it's grounds.

Correct. Go to the head of the class.

You've made my point for me. The law is convoluted and confusing. My last post was written to show how it can be difficult to follow. Notice the numbers of the codes I posted. They are not in sequence. That is because I left out huge chunks. There are indeed some buildings that are inviolate whether you have a CCW or not.


Just for fun, lets do a test. Here is a chunk of CA law concerning carry of a firearm:

(a) Any person in possession of a firearm or any uniformed peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security personnel, who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate city or county elections official is punishable by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months or two or three years or in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An unarmed uniformed guard or security personnel who is at the polling place to cast his or her vote.
(2) A peace officer who is conducting official business in the
course of his or her public employment or who is at the polling place to cast his or her vote.
(3) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by a city or county elections official.
(4) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by the owner or manager of the facility or property in which the
polling place is located if the guard or security personnel is not
hired or arranged solely for the day on which an election is held.

There's the code. I have not left out any part that is relevant to this question. My question is, can a regular guy (you and I, not a policeman or private guard) carry in a polling place?

 

[shawn mccarver]

With all due respect to the OP, and to those trying to help the OP answer the question, wasn't this covered in the OP's CCW Class?

If not, it is never a good idea to get your legal advice from non-lawyers. Or, from lawyers not licensed to practice in the state about whose laws you are requesting information.

Consult an attorney familiar with the laws on CCW in your State of Washington.

EDIT: The FAQ section on the Attorney General's web site for the State of Washington has helpful information under the heading "Prohibited Places to Carry?" at this location:

http://www.atg.wa.gov/ConcealedWeapons/FAQ.aspx#.VAfJIvldU6U

I would caution that you pay particular attention to the fact that local municipalities may have laws in addition to the State laws, as evidenced by the statement, "Municipalities may also have laws, in keeping with state law, that prohibit firearm possession."

 

[Cal44]

My question is, can a regular guy (you and I, not a policeman or private guard) carry in a polling place?

OK, I'll take a stab at it.

My reading is that, no, a regular person with a CCW license cannot carry in a polling place -- even if he was there to vote.

 

[Doug M.]

DISCLAIMER (and yeah, I have to do this): I am an attorney admitted to practice in Washington. I am not your lawyer, this is not legal advice, and we are not establishing an attorney-client relationship. I am posting this solely as an aid to finding and understanding the relevant legal standards. Washington's laws are relatively simple and easy to understand.


RCW 9.41.300: Weapons prohibited in certain places ? Local laws and ordinances ? Exceptions ? Penalty. contains all but one of the restrictions. There is one buried in title 70 or some such place that as far as I know only applies to the Gorge at George concert facility. Since I cannot conceive of any excuse to go there at any time for any event, and if you think otherwise you need to pay someone to kick you in the backside and head slap you until you correct yourself, I don't give it much thought. You may need to look in title 77 for any of the very limited and arcane provisions related to hunting, wildlife areas and the like. I have never hunted anything but bipeds so have no exposure to such things. Note that the title 77 restrictions on loaded firearms in vehicles do not apply to handguns carried by a person with a CPL.

There is also no duty to disclose to LE when stopped. IF you do so, do it in a manner other than screeching "I have a gun", and make sure you keep your hands on the wheel until and unless otherwise directed. If you do not listen to that advice, you may cause excitement in the LEO, which may be returned in your direction with vigorous commands and other things you won't like. That will be your fault. If ASKED, politely say "yes, and a CPL, and the gun is wherever" and keep your hands in view and away from it. Keep it on your body, not in the glove compartment. Revealing it while getting your registration and insurance stuff will cause enough excitement to make you wet your pants. Had a kid do that once when my partner pulled him out the window to maintain control. Really. DON'T BE THAT GUY.

In the RCW provision cited, you will find that for all intents and purposes that matter, no one can have local ordinances/rules that are other than lockstep with the state laws. There is the ability to limit discharge of firearms, but I would give those no thought if you need to shoot some assailant, whether human or animal. Private entities can post their property but it is not a crime and cannot result in loss of your CPL (see RCW 9.41.075: Concealed pistol license ? Revocation. for revocation standards). At worst, all they can do it tell you to leave, but if you fail to leave (right now) you can be arrested for trespassing. If you suck at concealing and get perceived, you should again pay someone to kick/head slap you.

If you have the misfortune to be in the People's Republic of the I5 Corridor, you have a much higher risk of meeting handwringers, but again, what they don't know will not hurt them, and if they find out, it's your fault.

 

[Waywatcher]

(a) Any person in possession of a firearm or any uniformed peace officer, private guard, or security personnel or any person who is wearing a uniform of a peace officer, guard, or security personnel, who is stationed in the immediate vicinity of, or posted at, a polling place without written authorization of the appropriate city or county elections official is punishable by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months or two or three years or in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) An unarmed uniformed guard or security personnel who is at the polling place to cast his or her vote.
(2) A peace officer who is conducting official business in the
course of his or her public employment or who is at the polling place to cast his or her vote.
(3) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by a city or county elections official.
(4) A private guard or security personnel hired or arranged for by the owner or manager of the facility or property in which the
polling place is located if the guard or security personnel is not
hired or arranged solely for the day on which an election is held.

There's the code. I have not left out any part that is relevant to this question. My question is, can a regular guy (you and I, not a policeman or private guard) carry in a polling place?

Reading it as a whole, the intent is clearly to prevent voter intimidation at polling places. Uniformed guards like security, or even just plain clothes guys standing around with guns.

There are two criteria that must be met to violate this law:
1.) Possess a gun, or be uniformed like security (as described up to the "who is stationed clause")
2.) That person must be stationed or in the immediate vicinity of a polling place (without specific permissions.)

That's how it reads to me.

 

[Rastoff]

OK, I let the question percolate for a day and no one else seems to want to take up the challenge. So, I'll pony up the answer...

My reading is that, no, a regular person with a CCW license cannot carry in a polling place -- even if he was there to vote.

This is exactly what I thought too when I first read it. And, it seemed pretty clear to me.

However...

Reading it as a whole, the intent is clearly to prevent voter intimidation at polling places. Uniformed guards like security, or even just plain clothes guys standing around with guns.

There are two criteria that must be met to violate this law:
1.) Possess a gun, or be uniformed like security (as described up to the "who is stationed clause")
2.) That person must be stationed or in the immediate vicinity of a polling place (without specific permissions.)

That's how it reads to me.

This is an excellent and thorough answer. Are you a lawyer?

He has it right on the two criteria. The kicker is the "must be stationed at" phrase. Because a regular Joe with a CCW isn't going to be stationed at a polling place, it seems that it is OK for him to carry there.

Now, I've never heard of a case challenging this logic. Anyone want to be the guinea pig?