Where do most brands of guns set their sights? POA or 6 o'clock

[gordon21]

Do most gun makers set their factory sights using a 6 o'clock hold, a point of aim impact spot or something in between? Do some brands use one method and other brands a different one?

Has the trend or standard, if any, changed over the past 100 years?

I recently bought a Walther P-22 .22LR pistol and it came with several different front sights so you could pick the sight picture you wanted by merely swapping out the front sight. Out of the box, I was shooting consistently about 4" low. I put in a new height sight and the problem was solved.

Depending upon the size of the target bullseye and gun, I personally have trouble with the POA. If the center of three dots covers the POA, then am I really on target if it is covered up?

I have also seen suggested sight pictures where the center "dot free" blade is supposed to draw a line from exactly 9 to 3 o'clock on the bullseye. That makes a third possible sight picture.

Of course all of this assumes a gun with no rear adjustable sight. Three non movable sights.

As my meager gun collection grows and I get the opportunity to use other peoples guns, this issue is getting more complicated. If I pick up a gun, where is it going to shoot???

 

[arjay]

My impression over the years is that fixed sight guns are usually set up for center hold at 25 yards.

 

[gordon21]

You mean the horizontal line from 9 to 3 o'clock splitting the bullseye in half?

 

[jinx]

^^^
That would be correct.

 

[ironhead7544]

The 6 o'clock hold is for formal target shooting at a round bullseye. Normally, you want the hit to be just above the front sight at the distance you want to zero at. So, with a 6 o'clock hold you would be hitting just in the black at the bottom.

The reason for the 6 o'clock hold is that you can see the sights a lot better against a white background. It is harder to be precise with a black on black sight picture.

 

[bettis1]

One of the facts that has always seemed inconsistent to me is the large percentage of Registered Magnums that were sighted in with the 6 o'clock hold. That is understandable with the longer barreled ones that would conceivably be used for target shooting but a great percentage of the shorter barreled guns which were presumably mostly for police or personal protection were also sighted by the factory in that manner.

It should be noted that the factory asked the buyer in their order form what sight picture and what ammunition they desired their RM to be sighted with. I'm not aware of the factory ever challenging the buyer's logic and suggesting a different hold.

Bob

 

[gordon21]

The black on black is part of why I have trouble with the traditional hold using 58 year old eyes that need bifocals. A 3-5" black bullseye gets really small really quick once it is more than 25' away. Now try to split it exactly in half and the job gets tougher. Plus the bottom half of the black bullseye fills the space between the center blade and the U groove. Black everywhere!!!!

I only use a sandbag rest when helping the grandkids shoot rifles. I do all my pistol shooting offhand.

I don't shoot competition target, therefore finessing a handgun on a sandbag or bipod for minutes on end between shots seems unnatural. Overkill. Kinda like using a $400 thermometer to check to see if the bath water is ok.

When I read gun magazine reviews where the tester says he is disappointed that a new 1911 will only shoot a 2.23 inch group at 25 YARDS, it just amazes me. They usually list the temperature, wind, etc. ONE TIME, I would like to know just how long it took him to five those 5 rounds off a sandbag. I don't know of any game or intruders (except snakes) that will sit motionless for you long enough to set up a shot like that.

 

[johngalt]

In my experience, neither. I've never had a fixed sight pistol that would hit any place remotely close to where I'm aiming. I only buy mine with adjustable sights now.

 

[5Wire]

Here's what Heine publishes:

 

[CO_Kid]

I don't know if this is true in all cases, but I have two 4"bbl S&W's, one from the 60's, one from the 2000's. The 50 year old model 10 needs a 6 o'clock hold at 7-10 yards, my 619 from the last decade shoots point of aim at the same distance

 

[mstem]

I was sighting in my 10" Ruger Super Blackhawk before hunting season & it was 3' low & 18" left at 100 yrds. I think they just slapped sights on it & called it a day.

 

[eveled]

I have never believed in the 6 oclock logic. I understand the reasoning that it allows for more accurate Target shooting, but guns aren't paper punches, they have a purpose they are meant to shoot things.

I want the bullet to hit were I'm aiming.

 

[tops]

A 6 oclock hold will only work at a set distance on a set size target. Using a 4 in. target and a 6 oclock hold the gun is shooting 2 ins. high. Using a 12 in. target the gun has to shoot 6 in. high. That is the reason 6 oclock holds only work on targets and won't work when hunting. As for the front sight covering the target just adjust the sights so the bullet hits at the top of the front sight and not the center of the front sight. For fixed sight guns that shoot too high or low just draw a finer or more coarse bead. Larry

 

[SC_Mike]

I understand Glock sets them up for 6 0'clock. Seems to be the case even when I change to Mepro NS.

 

[Alpo]

When I read gun magazine reviews where the tester says he is disappointed that a new 1911 will only shoot a 2.23 inch group at 25 YARDS, it just amazes me. They usually list the temperature, wind, etc. ONE TIME, I would like to know just how long it took him to five those 5 rounds off a sandbag. I don't know of any game or intruders (except snakes) that will sit motionless for you long enough to set up a shot like that.

When I read a gun magazine review, I want to know how good the gun shoots, not the writer. I expect that he has the gun locked into a gun rest, or at the very least has it sandbagged on a sturdy table.

If the best you can shoot is 6-inch groups at 25 yards, with a 1911, and you do that and write a review about it, and I can shoot 2-inch groups at the same distance, I would not bother with one of those guns. No sense in me getting a gun that inaccurate.

 

[nsl]

In my experience, neither. I've never had a fixed sight pistol that would hit any place remotely close to where I'm aiming. I only buy mine with adjustable sights now.

This.
Even adjustable sights are a crapshoot.
Rifles, revolvers, etc seem to not be zeroed at the factory these days.
Had several guns in my years that could not be zeroed at all.