Which reflex/holographic sight?

[Tommy kaira]

Hello guys,

I've had a search here and elsewhere on the net and am none the wiser really so I thought I'd ask. Appologies if it's been covered somewhere...feel free to link and abuse me for being too dumb to work the search function!

I've just ordered a 15-22 MOE and will be needing a sight to go with it. I've read everything I can find on the differences and think I need to go for an EOTech, Aimpoint or Trijicon. Question is, are these overkill for plinking away at the local 25m range and maybe a bit of light Practical shooting?

As I understand it, the Holographic sights are slightly 'better' as they don't restrict the light passing through them as much as a reflex. But realistically there isn't much to pick between them.

Battery life seems to be better on the Aimpoints than the EOTechs but I don't see either as a problem and Tritium are basically unlimited (24 years until the reticle is 25% it's original brightness).

So is the above correct? And is there anything that makes any one sight particularly suited/not suited to the 15-22?

Thanks in advance!

TK

 

[Kayback]

Pretty much overkill.

But is that a bad thing? If you are buying quality, forget about the Eotech. Eotech are, to put it politely, garbage.

As you said the battery life on the unit alone would make me go for the Aimpoint. While the recoil on the 15-22 won't be bad enough to cause damage to the Eotech, they still have too many CQ and basic design problems for my liking. Others may like them, and others may have ones that work, but those are more or less the exceptions to the rule.

As far as too much, maybe. You can get a pretty good Aimpoint knockoff from Primary Arms. They have good QC, good customer service and they are well priced. They are also, IIRC, compatible with all the current Aimpoint Micro accessories like La Rue mounts and the like. They don't have the battery life of a true Aimpoint, but they aren't any worse than an Eotech.

The Trijicon Tritiums are interesting. As you said no need for batteries, or you can get a dual illumination one. Just know they aren't as bright as the powered ones, and you may lose the reticule in bright backgrounds or if you shoot with a light. The half life of Tritium is ~12 years so 25% brightness would be closer to 18 years than 24. I think. Also, 25% is VERY dim. You should expect them to be more or less useless after about 12 years, probably closer to 8. But you can get the tritium replaced.

I currently use an NC Star scope on mine, their "holographic one" and I must say it has stood up much better than I thought it ever would.

You don't need to spend $450+ on the sights for your 15-22. I use my 15-22 for IDPA 3 gun matches. (we have a .22 class)

KBK

 

[W.E.G.]

The guy running the NC-Star sight says EOTECH is "garbage."

Well I guess that settles it.

 

[DialTone301]

Eotech is a good sight...the guy that said it is garbage is obviously misinformed. Other than battery life the new XPS line is every bit as good or better than the Aimpoints.

Depending on your use there are many choices. If you are doing steel challenge or some other game that needs fast target acquisition you might look at C-more. If you want a more tactical look and don't need quite the fast acquisition Primary arms of the Vortex Sparc are good choices.

My suggestion is to try to figure out your primary use and then see what other people are using...then pick what feels right to you.

 

[Kayback]

Well lets see, How many NC Star sights have I had die? None!

How many Eotech's have kicked the bucket? Two.

So the NC Star does take the lead there.

I was comparing the Eotech to the Aimpoint and the Trijicon when I said it was garbage.

I then said you don't need any of the big 3 on your 15-22. You can get a sight that will work for 1/3 the price, or even less. For a cheap plinker getting a cheap sight is a good idea, no? Especially if it works.

I just said the NC Star works. And it is cheap. Is it in the same class as the Aimpoint or Trijicon? No. That's why on my center fire rifles I use Aimpoints.

The Eotech series is still garbage.

You can expect to get about 200 hours of use out of an Eotech. Even the new XPS series die if you shoot enough. The Eotech is probably suitable for a hobby shooter who only gets through a single magazine at the range once a month. Hell one of my Eotech's didn't even survive THAT. Do some proper research, asking people who shoot their guns a lot. Eotech's are garbage if you actually use your gun.

It is still overkill for a .22, when you can get a Primary Arms for 1/3 the price.....


KBK

 

[roadkill45]

my 512 as well as my EOtech OPMOD EXPS-0 are amazing and i have Aimoints also. I have 2 CMores on my .22 steel challenge pistols also and a Vortex bright dot on another AR.
my OPMOD with a 3x magnifier is on my cannned 15-22, i know scope combo is worth more than rifle, but it was sitting unused since i changed out to Schmidt and Bender short dots and Weaver Super Slam FFP scopes, go from aimpoint type red dot to 5 power zoom with no POI/POA change due to FFP.
my early eotech in the military lasted forever and took a beating and kept on ticking.

the best thing running now is the Vortex Strikefire bright dot. not the red green as it is not bright enough. this is an excellent red dot site for around $140 or below, 2 mounts, one high one low, a screw in magnifier, lens caps and so far i can't make it lose zero for anything.

Saying an EOtech is junk compared to an NCstar is about the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard of. Ask any troops coming back which they preferred since some of my buds got to use all 3 systems, ACOG, Aimpoint and Eo's and they will not complain about any. the preference goes to the Acog since it has some magnification w/o using a separate magnifier and FTS mount.

as said above the Cmore railways are FAST, i have tried them on my rifle and they work very well. i only use them on my pistols since i was concerned with hunting with them and whacking the round hood on a tree and cracking it, but they are bright as hell and if you get some Arredondo add on knobs for them, very user friendly.
Sparc is good also, kind of a T-1 knock off. Primary arms is a very good CS company and i have bought mounts and my last Bright Dot from them. it's only a .22 (says the guy with EO's, EO magnify, Pilot II can, etc) on it. but then again all my add ons came from AR platforms that were not the hosts anymore.

 

[Gamecock]

Eotech is better. Unless you like the Acog better.

Sorry, Tommy, after 5 more pages of this thread, you will not have advanced any further.

I personally have an Eotech XPS 2-0 on my AR-10, and I'm very happy with it. I think it would be perfect for your application. Fun, too.

My other biases:

BTW Ford is better than Chevy.

Which reloader is better, Red or Blue? Green!

 

[roadkill45]

you must be using CHIotechs. have never had one break and had one keep right on going even with a crack all the way through the glass when it was dropped somewhere the Army decided to put us in! Plus they have lifetime warranty, although the Vortex does also.
buy once, cry once...you can always use the good site on another weapons system if you have or once you get it and then drink Kayback's NC star Kool aid!

 

[roadkill45]

I'm partial to red on reloaders!!! LOL

 

[W.E.G.]

I own three EOTECH model 512's.

The "issue" with some EOTECH sights that have the "straight-on" battery compartment is that the rubber gasket around the battery terminals can detach, and cause the sight to "cut off" during firing.

This is a legitimate issue and concern.

The good news is, its really easy to look at YOUR specimen, and tell whether there is an issue with this. If the "rubber piece" isn't peeling off, you don't have this issue. But remember, that "rubber piece" is held on with glue. It WILL FAIL someday. Maybe not in your lifetime, but it will eventually give out.

People by all manner of spare parts for their rifles.
Why wouldn't you also stock spare parts for your optics?
EOTECH spare parts are very much available. Not so sure about those NC-Star spares.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u25_YzqYrA0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TbR-W8X-fY

Wonder if the NC-Star guy might have gotten one of the FAKE versions of the EOTECH?
There are EOTECH fakes out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGMuu3wgmY4

 

[BlueLizard]

Hi Tommy,

I have a (genuine!) Eotech XPS2 on my 9mm carbine and it's a great sight for gallery shooting. However, I'd say that it's a bit overkill for the 15-22 (especially at the prices they go for in the UK), and am very happy with the Vortex SPARC on my S&W.

Checkout New Pro UK as main dealers for the Vortex range. The lifetime warranty is a big plus, and it's getting harder to get decent sights at fair prices this side of the pond due to US ITAR restrictions...

 

[Gopher Slayer]

Both will work on the 15-22 platform. I like single dot reticules that are 3moa or smaller. Some like the big donut thing that eotech offers. It's just a personal preference. What you should do next is...

Find out if YOU are an Eotech or Aimpoint guy (holographic or reflex). Then decide how much you want to spend.

After that, come back to us and ask some optic questions. For now, you're only going to get opinions.

 

[rraisley]

I have the Primary Arms PAM3M on my MOE, and love it. Got a QD mount (although the one it comes with is fine if you don't want QD). It was highly recommended by many others, and I've got nothing but good to say about it. Love the look, the quality, the 4 reticle styles, brightness, everything. Not an EOTech or Aimpoint, but it's all I'll ever need (in the way of a red dot) on this rifle.

 

[BlueLizard]

OP is in the UK and I'm sure the Primary Arms sights are great budget options, but unfortunately they will not ship to the UK due to ITAR

That's why I mentioned the Vortex range, which is definitely available in the UK with full dealer support and represents a very credible mid-range option.

 

[Kayback]

Saying an EOtech is junk compared to an NCstar is about the most ridiculous statement i have ever heard of.

Oh FFS I never said the Eotech is junk compared to the NC Star. I said it is junk compared to the Aimpoint and the Trijicon.

The Eotech is junk. Look up some info on people who actually shoot their firearms. Honestly, go look at what guys like Pat Rogers has to say about them. He isn't the only detractor, but he uses his guns. They shoot a LOT of bullets, and the Eotech's don't stand up to the use. Either his own ones, or ones that get brought to his classes.

I was not using Chinotechs. I was using legitimate ones. Same way as I'm using legitimate Aimpoints on my center fire rifles and Trijicons on my pistol.

You may be happy with your Eotech. I even said in my original post that people will like them and will have some that work. Congrats. I refuse to use a sighting system that will require me to work on it and replace factory parts before it is reliable.

EOTech EXPS 2-0 Review. « Paulo Santos Weapon Review Blog

Military Arms Channel • View topic - EOTech models

You'll also get a lot of people saying things like

The Eotech on my issued weapon has been running great for about 5 years, probably around 5k rounds. It has been dropped on the sight a couple of times in training. The hood is scratched up, but the sight works fine.

.
5k in 5 years is not a lot of shooting. It works out to about 20 rounds a weekend. Run it through 1000+ rounds in a two day carbine course and see how well they work. But I admitted in my first post this may not be a concern for a 15-22.

That being said, there is no need to buy a freaking $450 sight for a gun that's only worth $350!

There are plenty of budget sights out there. NC Star happens to be one of them. I got it free in a trade and I threw it on my 15-22 and to my amazement it still works. I even SAID that in the original post. It has lasted much longer than I expected it to, meaning I did not expect it to work. It does.

The Primary Arms Aimpoint like sights are also GTG, for a limited variance of GTG. On a 15-22, which you will not be trusting your life to, nor likely to need with any imminence, you can get the budget sight that needs to be turned on and off, pretty much like the Eotech, which will set you back by more than the cost of another 15-22.

KBK

 

[Tommy kaira]

Wow! What have I started? I guess this question is like asking on a VW forum if air cooled or water cooled is best (trick question by the way, all VWs are junk!)

Firstly, thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply.

I like the idea of saving some money on something that does (almost) the same thing.

If I was to put a Vortex on my 12ga Mossberg I assume it would get shaken to bits where as the more expensive versions would (probably) survive. Not something I'm particularly planning on doing but you never know?

I may look at shipping a sight, some spare mags ($50-60 each in the UK), etc from the States in a big order if I can find a retailer willing to do so. So the price of the higher end sights may not be too much of a problem with Votex SPARC costing nearly $300 here anyway. A few hundred dollars for a bit more 'bling' isn't a bad thing!

So:

Vortex - good budget option (does anyone have feed back on how they handle higher recoil?)

A trans mount EOTech - popular option

Aimpoint/Trijicon - Very good but overkill for this application, I'd just be buying 'cool points'!

 

[Tommy kaira]

That being said, there is no need to buy a freaking $450 sight for a gun that's only worth $350!

I actually agree with this. But, here in the UK I'll have to pay the equivalent of $1200 for a 15-22. So a $450 sight may not be as daft as it sounds.

To buy here some unbranded Chinese **** would be $70+. This is where my problem differs from you lucky guys in the US. To spend half my rifles value (the cost of a half decent optic over here) on a sight I could buy a Trijicon, some spare mags, a nice range bag AND have it shipped over from the States.

I didn't need to spend $20000 on the engine of a $12000 car but I did...and I love it! So it's not always as black and white as $ vs $. I guess that's what I'm asking really.

 

[Kayback]

Lol you haven't started anything, like you said it is different views. I've used many Aimpoints from the Comp M to the H-1 and never had an issue. I've tried two Eotechs, both died. One was an XPS that died before I even got to test fire it.

People who have ones that work, swear BY them (see above) people who have had them not work, swear AT them (see above).

Chances are if you buy one it will work. But do you really want to take that chance?

KBK

 

[Kayback]

I actually agree with this. But, here in the UK I'll have to pay the equivalent of $1200 for a 15-22. So a $450 sight may not be as daft as it sounds.

Aye, I know that feeling. I live in South Africa and I paid just shy of $900 for my 15-22.

I still wouldn't put a $450 sight on it If I was going to spend that much money I'd spend half and buy a suitcase full of no name Chinese ones, and just use a new one each time the old one died

 

[Ghost_Soldier]

I still only agree to a point.

Buy once, cry once, buy quality the first time around and all that, then people still suggest UTG and NCStar. :roll:

KBK

I use the Vortex Strikefire red/green dot. I used to have it on my 15-22 but I now have it on my AR. Its plenty bright enough for me in the sunlight and it holds its zero. Excellent optic for $135 at opticsplanet, I think its a little higher now though.