Who will be making 870's in the future

[kevin in nh]

We had them in LE and twice I convinced to future felons to the sound of the 870 racking a round into the chamber . As a hunter I have killed whitetails out to 124 yards this year was 45 yards with a 20 inch canterlevered rifled narrel.....in 20 years in LE and more as a hunter the 870 is a reliable killing machine

 

[jjmIII_Ruger]

I was kind of hoping Ruger would take over the 870. Not sure how realistic that is, but I think they’d do it right.

That would be a great idea for Ruger and the 870.

As I acquired guns over the last decade, I went for the guns that protect our nation. Be it Military or LEO's. Now I have M9, G17, AR, 1911, M36, M10, M19...and a 590a1. Maybe I made the right choice? If Ruger made an 870, I'd have to buy though!

 

[LostintheOzone]

Incorrect, only Maverick 88 parts are made in Mexico, Mossberg 500 Series parts are made in New Haven Connecticut.



As previously stated in the very message you quoted but evidently didn't read all the way through prior to replying to, because the Mossberg 590 has an objectively superior control layout which allows the shooter to work both the safety and bolt release without breaking their grip. Furthermore, parts such as the extractor can be replaced by the end user because they are secured with simple screws, whereas the Remington 870 has the extractor riveted into place, so if it breaks you have no choice but to send it into the factory for repairs, which is a bigger issue than ever now that they're out of production.

Another thing that I forgot to mention before is that the Mossberg 590 comes from the factory with a drilled and tapped receiver.

Besides, I never said that the Remington 870 should be a rebranded Mossberg 590 clone, merely that it ought to be redesigned with a control layout similar to the Mossberg 590 which can be accessed by the shooter's hand without having to break their grip, and that parts ought to be screwed into place rather than riveted.

You need to tune up your google fu amigo. Mossberg's corporate offices are in CT. 90% of their product is assembled in Texas on the border town of Eagle Pass. Why Eagle Pass? Because it's close to Mexico. Parts are made in Mexico and shipped to the US to be assembled. They would be assembled in MX but the law forbids it. All Mossberg shotgun barrels and many other parts are made in Mexico. What would be the point in producing parts and in CT and shipping them all the way to TX when the Torreon MX. factory is 380 miles away.

Some of Mossberg's parts are made in Turkey according to their website.

That sounds about as American as a new Harley.

 

[OLDSTER]

IF Remington goes officially "belly", I hope no one tries to replicate the venerable 1100 or 870. Let them deservedly become classics like the Win. Models 12 and 70.

 

[Drm50]

Your last 2 sentences are totally off the wall. And backwards too.

How so? I know what I am talking about , do you?

 

[67tempest]

An 870 Wingmaster was the first firearm I purchased new as a teenager back in the 70's. I've hunted with it for 45+ years and it's never let me down. I purchased two 870 youth models in 20ga for my twin sons when they started hunting with me, still have them both. I have added a few more to the collection over the years and I now have 6. If the opportunity came up to buy another one at a reasonable price I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[Echo40]

You need to tune up your google fu amigo. Mossberg's corporate offices are in CT. 90% of their product is assembled in Texas on the border town of Eagle Pass. Why Eagle Pass? Because it's close to Mexico. Parts are made in Mexico and shipped to the US to be assembled. They would be assembled in MX but the law forbids it. All Mossberg shotgun barrels and many other parts are made in Mexico. What would be the point in producing parts and in CT and shipping them all the way to TX when the Torreon MX. factory is 380 miles away.

Some of Mossberg's parts are made in Turkey according to their website.

That sounds about as American as a new Harley.

I've looked into it, and it appears that you are at least partially correct. As of 2014, Mossberg has moved 90% of their firearms production to Texas, but according to Mossberg, only the Maverick 88 is built using predominantly Mexican parts, hence its lower price point.

I own a 2018 Manufactured 590 Shockwave which is inscribed; "MOSSBERG NORTH HAVEN, CT -- 590 12 GAUGE" on the underside of the receiver and "EAGLE PASS, TX" on the barrel. So unless only the receiver/barrel are made in the USA or otherwise Mossberg is just stamping their HQ's address on the receiver and US manufacturing facility on the barrel which are both in fact made in Mexico, not to mention outright lying that only the Maverick 88 is made in Mexico/assembled in the US, I don't know what to say. But then again, I'm not savvy on the laws regarding how far one can stretch the truth when it comes to marketing before it's considered false advertisement/deceptive marketing, but I would think that they couldn't just say that their 500 Series Shotguns are made in the USA when they are in fact only assembled in the USA.

As for Turkish-made firearms, that's no secret, but it's entirely irrelevant to the 500 Series as their Turkish-made firearms are all rimfire rifles and break action shotguns made by a company called Kahn.

Regardless, Mossbergs are quality firearms, so if they are in fact made almost entirely out of Mexican made parts, then all that tells me is that the Mexicans know how to make quality firearms parts, because mine is smooth, reliable, and has an excellent fit/finish which I wouldn't have expected to have come from a cheap manufacturing plant in Mexico, but then again, maybe the guys at Eagle Pass are just polishing out all the tool marks and burrs. Heck if I know.

 

[pawngal]

You can by a high condition w12, Rem 31 or It37 for $300-$350. There is no doubt the my 870 will bring about twice that and a used Mossberg as much or more, especially if black.

You can by a high condition w12, Rem 31 or It37 for $300-$350.
Yes. The values of Winchester M12 have dropped a lot in the past 15-20 years.

There is no doubt the my 870 will bring about twice that
Yes, assuming it is a Wingmaster. Even more if .410 or 28 ga.

used Mossberg as much or more, especially if black
No way.
I have been in the used shotgun business for 29 years and have
never sold a pump Mossberg for over $300.
I'm talking hunting versions, not the self-defense or riot type.

 

[Drm50]

You can by a high condition w12, Rem 31 or It37 for $300-$350.
Yes. The values of Winchester M12 have dropped a lot in the past 15-20 years.

There is no doubt the my 870 will bring about twice that
Yes, assuming it is a Wingmaster. Even more if .410 or 28 ga.

used Mossberg as much or more, especially if black
No way.
I have been in the used shotgun business for 29 years and have
never sold a pump Mossberg for over $300.

I'm talking hunting versions, not the self-defense or riot type.

I agree 100%, that’s exactly how market is here with the exception of the camo Turkey Moss models. They bring more than a m12 but less than the Para military models. I folded in 92 and there was no Moss worth more than $100 used. I hated to take them on trade. They were about the bottom of the barrel at that time. That’s when about any m12 wood bring $600+ and Ithaca 37 was only out of print 5yrs and lid was on there used price because of m87.

The guys that buy and use the old classics are us old guys. The new generation wants the Para military looking guns. End of story.
I don’t know why 870s bring more than classics unless it’s the same thing in a generation like m12s. I don’t look at new guns they are implements to discharge cartridges. They have no class or soul.

 

[lrrifleman]

My apologies to the thin-skinned, but this is beginning to sound like the age old discussion, "which is better, the 9mm or the 45?"

Sorry, but we all have our brand loyalties and preferences! I think that we can all agree, these particular models did their intended jobs, and in many cases, put meat on many tables!

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

How so? I know what I am talking about , do you?

Yes I do. Junky mossbergs will never equal mdl 12's/37's or 870's. Price them at gun shows or pawn shops....You'll see.

 

[diyj98]

You can by a high condition w12, Rem 31 or It37 for $300-$350.
Yes. The values of Winchester M12 have dropped a lot in the past 15-20 years.

There is no doubt the my 870 will bring about twice that
Yes, assuming it is a Wingmaster. Even more if .410 or 28 ga.

used Mossberg as much or more, especially if black
No way.
I have been in the used shotgun business for 29 years and have
never sold a pump Mossberg for over $300.
I'm talking hunting versions, not the self-defense or riot type.

Certainly prices can vary regionally just like open chokes guns sell better in many states south of me, but in my area the full choke guns bring higher prices. In my area a Model 12 can bring $400 to $800 pretty easy depending upon condition, barrel length, choke, etc. While 870 12 guage Wingmasters in the same condition will bring a couple to several hundred dollars less in comparable condition. While thinning out my collection, it took me about a year to get $400 out of a very nice modern Wingmaster. The older "silver spoon" guns bring more. I just sold two nice 31's out of my collection for $400 each, but that's top end here. Cabelas bought a large 31 collection and have been selling them for $300. Hunting style Mossberg 500's are $200 guns. Local shops here may price them higher, but they seldom move. In my area Model 12's values really haven't increased any from what they were bringing 20 years ago.

Reginal pricing does make a difference. Several years ago a gun show owner friend of mine would but things cheap here that he sold for a profit in Tulsa, then buy things cheap in Tulsa that would sell at a profit here.

 

[dusty3030]

One thing to note in all of this, as far as shotguns go new pump guns are selling best in defense models and kid's entry level guns.

As an avid hunter I can tell you that I never see a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 in the hands of anything but a kid in a duck blind anymore. 10 years or so ago yes but not anymore. Benelli Super Black Eagles dominate and for good reason. Some Beretta autos and the occasional Auto 5 Browning, and either Beretta or Browning over and unders from time to time. I do see Benelli Nova / Super Nova sometimes as well.

If Remington wants to reincarnate themselves they've got to make an auto as monumental as the 1100 was back in the day. That 105 debacle they had for a minute or the Versa Max ain't it.

 

[LostintheOzone]

One thing to note in all of this, as far as shotguns go new pump guns are selling best in defense models and kid's entry level guns.

As an avid hunter I can tell you that I never see a Remington 870 or a Mossberg 500 in the hands of anything but a kid in a duck blind anymore. 10 years or so ago yes but not anymore. Benelli Super Black Eagles dominate and for good reason. Some Beretta autos and the occasional Auto 5 Browning, and either Beretta or Browning over and unders from time to time. I do see Benelli Nova / Super Nova sometimes as well.

If Remington wants to reincarnate themselves they've got to make an auto as monumental as the 1100 was back in the day. That 105 debacle they had for a minute or the Versa Max ain't it.

I don't see how anyone is going to compete with Benelli/Beretta or Mossberg. It's a dwindling market for sure.

I've never owned a Mossberg but I understand the market for those. I moved to Beretta years ago for my field and target guns because I've literally owned everything except a Mossberg in the last 50 years. I've even owned some hand made British game guns.

 

[Frank46]

Remington 870 in 12 guage was the first shotgun I bought. Deer hunting in the Irish Alps only shotguns can be used. 20 " bbl with rifle sights and pretty accurate with Remington slugs. Moved to louisiana and started hunting down here.Decided to get a 28" barrel with bead sights. Guy at Remington said get the express model. Cheaper than the barrel. Got the express model and just the thing for hunting in the swamps. Then two gunshows back to back I scored two Remington 870 police turn in riot guns. Now they are fun. Refinished the wood on one came out good. The other may end up a truck gun. So for me it's the 870 Frank

 

[Buick]

That would be a great idea for Ruger and the 870.

As I acquired guns over the last decade, I went for the guns that protect our nation. Be it Military or LEO's. Now I have M9, G17, AR, 1911, M36, M10, M19...and a 590a1. Maybe I made the right choice? If Ruger made an 870, I'd have to buy though!

You can add the Winchesters M12 and 1897, as well as the 1200, plus the Remington 870 (used by the USMC for many years), Ithaca 37, and Stevens 67 to your military shotgun list. According to an old hunting buddy of mine, an Okinawan US Army machine gunner, the Ithaca 37 was the preferred shotgun for perimeter security around the gun ," because it dont give no trouble". The Ithaca has some 21 less parts than an 870, and they are all milled.

 

[Farmer17]

I inherited my dads 870 2-3/4" Wingmaster with 28" plain barrel. I remember my dad had trouble with two shells coming out of the magazine on to the lifter tying the gun up but I never had that problem when I owned it. When synthetic stocks and non reflective finishes became popular I thought that was so cool so I bought a 12 gauge 3" 870 . Then I was in a Walmart and noticed a 20 gauge 870 express with rifle sighted 20" barrel on sale for $175 I said I wanted to buy it and when the lady brought out the box to my surprise it also included a 28" vent rib barrel! I then bought a Mossberg Maverick 12 gauge just because it was cheap and I was in the mood to buy a gun and after some shooting and hunting I really liked it. The stock was too long and I cut about 3/4" off and reinstalled the recoil pad and it fit me much better since I'm 5-9. The older 870s definitely are prettier and classier but for hunting and shooting Mossbergs are just fine.

 

[CH4]

Good question OP, perhaps Ruger...

I likely bought my last 870, a Tac 14.

Other than a Winchester model 12, I carried an 870 for bulk of my LE career. I am glad I snagged it when I did. Found it at Scheels for $279, you can rarely find em now.

 

[Drm50]

Comparing stamped guns to milled guns is apples and oranges. There is no comparison other than both will discharge a shell. The classics we will call generation 1. The 870/ Moss of stamping we will cal Gen. 2. Today’s guns of plastics, synthetics, alloy castings and painted finishes we will call Gen 3
The moral of story is profit margin. Rem had the pump shotgun market for years with 870. Then they killed the golden goose when they let the bean counters run the company. They did same thing with 1100s which were top selling auto loader. I know of no gun that was “improved” except for the production cost.

 

[sodacan]

My one and only shotgun is a Remington 870. I bought this brand new in the early '70's. I'm not a hunter, and bought it for HD. When I discovered Scattergun Technologies, I had their basic conversion done. I think it was like $170. This was before they were bought out by Wilson Combat. I left the rifle sights on the gun because, for me, target acquisition is way faster than with a ghost ring set-up, and keeps better for slugs. The quality is quite good for the gun and the conversion.