Why are law enforcement agencies issuing Glocks?

[Doc Hollywood]

A LEO came into my ER with a GSW. Turns out that LEO and others were serving a warrant and one of them got startled and knocked down the stairs by the subject's family dog bolting. That officer discharged his weapon accidentally wounding another officer. This is the second time I have seen a situation like this in less than a year. A coworker of mine and I were talking about the situation and he said that back when he worked in Los Angeles there was a rash of LA county deputies shooting themselves and others when the department switched from Berretta 92's to the S&W M&P's. I would think that agencies would either issue weapons with some safety features or train these guys to stay off the trigger. What gives?

 

[retiredbadge8091]

Sounds like the firearms staff at the P.D. is falling short in their safety training... Finger off the trigger until you've made the conscious decision to shoot.

 

[Kanewpadle]

A LEO came into my ER with a GSW. Turns out that LEO and others were serving a warrant and one of them got startled and knocked down the stairs by the subject's family dog bolting. That officer discharged his weapon accidentally wounding another officer. This is the second time I have seen a situation like this in less than a year. A coworker of mine and I were talking about the situation and he said that back when he worked in Los Angeles there was a rash of LA county deputies shooting themselves and others when the department switched from Berretta 92's to the S&W M&P's. I would think that agencies would either issue weapons with some safety features or train these guys to stay off the trigger. What gives?

Not the guns fault.

 

[BUFF]

For most of the 20th century, U.S. cops carried a handgun with no separate mechanical safety, the double action revolver. One of the "features" of the Glock and most other striker-fired semiautos is that they work just like the revolver in that they have no safety to forget to use. That was a big selling feature.

Few police agencies have enough budget dedicated to firearms training. Many only qualify once or twice a year. So they like simple.

The main factor driving agency purchases is cost. Glocks are inexpensive to manufacture, they have fewer parts than, say, a Colt 1911 or a Beretta 92. Guns are usually purchased by competitive bidding according to specification by the agency, such as caliber and finish. If you know how, your required specifications can narrow it down to whatever the writer really wants to buy.

Glocks are reliable, relatively inexpensive, mechanically simple, durable, can be had in many chamberings and sizes. I see their appeal.

That said, I carried my own Colt 1911s for 22 years. The mechanical safety was an advantage over no safety, I felt.

The only way to make a handgun "safe" is to make it so that it can't be loaded with cartridges. As the former Spetznaz soldier said, "Of course ees not safe! Ees GON!!!"

 

[Mexican Kerry]

I'd agree with lack of training. Just because your job requires a firearm doesn't mean you are proficient or a firearm enthusiast. It just means that if you were hired you passed a minimum requirement.

There are fields that require a firearm for employment. Not everybody spends their spare time at the range, and not everybody learned safe firearm practices. But everybody needs a job. Unfortunately, like in every field, you don't always get the most suited candidate.

Hope your GSW pulls through ok.

 

[Biggfoot44]

1. Back in the day, the ease of transition from DA revolvers gave the Glock a leg up on the DA/SA wondernines. Once established, market dominence is a powerful thing.

2. Glock has an excellent LE specific sales/ support dept.

3. Pricing is very competitive.

4. Notwithstanding the infamous .40 KaBooms, they are functional and reliable.


And most if the gripes aren't specifically about Glock per se. They would be just as relevant applied to dao-ish striker fried pistols generally.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Agree with others, it's not the gun but the person using it.

When S&W revolvers were popular departments would sometimes order them with double-action only to prevent officers from cocking them, and then firing them accidentally when the adrenaline was flowing.

 

[okiegtrider]

Sounds like the firearms staff at the P.D. is falling short in their safety training... Finger off the trigger until you've made the conscious decision to shoot.

It really is just that simple.

Like some of the others have said, this aint a Glock problem.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Well, there is one thing that could have been improved, the dropping the striker to field strip. And the earliest plastic shipping/ informal storage boxes ( when G17 was the only Glock) required the trigger to be pulled to be put into the box.

But in general, the issues are generic to dao-ish striker guns.

 

[BAM-BAM]

IIRC...... the ATF classified the Glock as a DAO firearm ..which made Mayors and Chief feel all warm and fuzzy....but with a short 6lb trigger pull. Later NY got the NY 12lb. Trigger

Glocks were sold cheap vs others like Smith,Sig and Beretta...... and Glock bought/took in trade the Depts old guns ........ which they then sold off.

 

[Arik]

Not only is it a training issue but the guy falling down the stairs is a fluke. What happens when you fall down? Body tenses! He could have just as easily taken the safety off as he was falling.

HK VP
Glock
M&P
Walther PPQ
Walther PPS
Sig 320
CZ P10
Springfield XD

All these guns function the same.


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[blues7]

Well, there is one thing that could have been improved, the dropping the striker to field strip. And the earliest plastic shipping/ informal storage boxes ( when G17 was the only Glock) required the trigger to be pulled to be put into the box.

But in general, the issues are generic to dao-ish striker guns.

I was present at the incident which caused Glock to put warning labels on their boxes to keep numbskulls from trying to fit a loaded weapon over the post that went through the trigger guard.

Never fear, however. The agent won a settlement for several tens of thousands of dollars and was later promoted into and up the management chain. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[cmort666]

I would think that agencies would either issue weapons with some safety features or train these guys to stay off the trigger. What gives?

And we have a winner...

 

[MaricopaKid]

No disrespect intended...But if you ACT like Barney, CARRY like Barney.

 

[Bastogne71]

Let's send the LA police force for one day of remedial firearms training. That's about 10,000 officers for eight hours each at a median pay of roughly $30 an hour. That comes to around $2,400,000! And that doesn't include the cost of benefits like retirement, payroll taxes, or health care! Do you really think a LA city council would approve that? Or would they rather spend it on some vote buying feel good program?

 

[625-10scc]

Three things cause negligent discharges in tense situations, balance disruption , startle response and sympathetic muscle contraction . Adrenaline increases the likelihood .
One of the pioneer studies was an officer in foot pursuit closing a hand on the suspect collar also closing his hand on the weapon causing it to discharge . When the hand closes the finger slips from its position on the frame to inside the trigger guard . This example was with a revolver .
As reflex actions are difficult if not impossible to train out muzzle discipline is about the only thing left , universal cover mode , laser safety rule . Muzzle discipline is difficult to maintain when tumbling down stairs .
Dr. Lee , forgive me if I am quoting the wrong source , time studies have held in court that a suspect decision to flee and an officer decision to fire could result in the suspect being shot in the back also did a study on finger discipline . He found that in high stress situations highly trained SWAT officers in stacks would transition back and forth from finger discipline to a reassuring touch of the trigger . This was illustrated to me by a N R A trainer with a bullhorn .
One of the things that would raise suspicion that a person had a weapon was that reassuring touch of it when you appeared at the street corner in a marked unit . Those males among us touch a part of our anatomy reassuringly as if it could have been misplaced .
Somethings can be changed by training somethings only understood .

 

[cmort666]

Let's send the LA police force for one day of remedial firearms training. That's about 10,000 officers for eight hours each at a median pay of roughly $30 an hour. That comes to around $2,400,000! And that doesn't include the cost of benefits like retirement, payroll taxes, or health care! Do you really think a LA city council would approve that? Or would they rather spend it on some vote buying feel good program?

I wonder what a half dozen wrongful death and/or personal injury suits cost... nevermind the hit to their public image...?

 

[Skeet 028]

I agree with the training issue then there is the BUT. NY perceived an issue with the Glock and mandated a 12 pound trigger. Get the drift? Yes there were negligent discharges with revolvers..evidently not as many as there have been with Glocks. Seriously..Look at it this way..The only real safety on a Glock or any that work the same way is between the ears of the person carrying it. Quite often they are in VERY tense situations(BTDT). In my opinion with no intensive training either a revolver or a semi with a safety is what police officers should carry. Not knocking cops...but I feel most are not real gun guys..by that I mean like some on this board who practice practice practice. I personally know quite a few who have hardly ever shot their duty arm..and have never personally cleaned it. Back when I had my shop I would clean any cop's gun..while he waited. Not a strip and clean just take the rust off brush the dirt out and make them better....and operable. Some actually shot a few rounds on my range outside the shop.. Glocks and their ilk are dangerous in my opinion. All that being said..being startled falling down and discharging could have happened with any firearm(coulda been a shotgun!). So this is not just a Glock problem. I also hope they didn't charge the owner of the dog with something over this.

 

[Jack Flash]

So if the officer had tumbled down the stairs with his finger on the trigger of a double action revolver, we know for a fact that it would not have discharged? Only an evil Glock will do this?

And again we hear the danger of disassembling a Glock with a loaded chamber. Stories of guys who shot themselves in the foot, leg, or hand doing so. So it's Glock's fault that some people can not or will not follow the most basic rules of firearm safety?

 

[Valmet]

To echo the sentiments of others on this thread, it isn't the guns fault. Contrary to my userID, I'm not necessarily a fanboy, but guns are inherently dangerous things, when the trigger is pressed, it goes bang. Glocks are lightweight, easy to work on, extremely reliable, and affordable (perhaps the most attractive on the list to a large PD)...sure there are other guns that make the list, but price and manual of arms make the Glock a very attractive option for PDs