Why are my 357 Mags hard to extract??

[Rule3]

I bought a new (to me) Model 66. Like new. I fired about 50, 38 specials worked fine and accurate.

I loaded some 357 mags which are probably "medium mag loads" They are very diffucult to extract the empties. I have to tap the end of the extractor rod on the bench a little to get them to move and then they come out easy??

158 LSWC loaded with 9.5 Blue Dot. I did use WSP mag primers as I had one sleave left. I usually just use regular primers.
Could I have too tight a crimp on them?

The empties do not show any sign of high pressure and anything unusual to me.

Thanks

 

[Rule3]

I bought a new (to me) Model 66. Like new. I fired about 50, 38 specials worked fine and accurate.

I loaded some 357 mags which are probably "medium mag loads" They are very diffucult to extract the empties. I have to tap the end of the extractor rod on the bench a little to get them to move and then they come out easy??

158 LSWC loaded with 9.5 Blue Dot. I did use WSP mag primers as I had one sleave left. I usually just use regular primers.
Could I have too tight a crimp on them?

The empties do not show any sign of high pressure and anything unusual to me.

Thanks

 

[keppelj]

Do they go in hard? Is the 1/8" or so behind the throat full of carbon because the gun was used only for .38 special?

 

[NFrameFred]

Magnum primers can cause pressure spikes and in my experience Blue Dot can be an extremely volatile, touchy powder. Loads are 'balanced' by the pressure curve/burning rate. Magnum primers cause more of the powder to be lit up simultaneously and can spike pressures.

You might consider that possibility. Doesn't sound as if anything else is amiss.

 

[MrPhil]

Originally posted by keppelj:
Do they go in hard? Is the 1/8" or so behind the throat full of carbon because the gun was used only for .38 special?

This is the first thing I'd check. A diet of 38 special will build up a ring of crud in the charge holes. Give the cylinder a serious cleaning and try again.

 

[NFrameFred]

Originally posted by keppelj:
Do they go in hard? Is the 1/8" or so behind the throat full of carbon because the gun was used only for .38 special?

Missed that suggestion the first time around. A possibility if they are just "sticky" and not over-pressured cases.

 

[Rule3]

No, they slide in like normal. There may have been some carbon from the 38" but nothing major.
I shot some more today that I loaded the same but in brass cases and they worked fine. The nickle cases were again a little tight but came out with a good punch by hand. Maybe I had to much cleaning oil in the cylinders or something or maybe they are just tight as I do not think the gun was shot much, although I do not know if "cylinders actually break in".

The Blue Dot is rather messy. I shot maybe 50 rounds and the gun is filthy.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Never could get cozy with Blue Dot. Others have, not me.

I still guessing carbon ring in the cylinder. Here is a tip that will help you to get all of it out. I learned it from a knowledgeable X-Army (you can't be an "X" Marine by the way, just a former one!

)officer.

Take a fired, unresized case and push it into each chamber. The expanded case shouldn't damage your cylinder walls being softer than the stainless steel. Use a brass case though, not a nickel one. Clean with Ed's Red solvent, and you should be good to go.

Never fire 38spl in a firearm designed for 357mag and then load up some magnums without cleaning the firearm. Going the other way, no problemo!

 

[Rule3]

Thanks. It appears that was the problem based on todays experiance. I thought the 38 then 357 had been de bunked but I guess not. I have already cleaned the gun but are you saying to try a fired brass and see if it hangs up in the cylinder? I cleaned the cylinders out with a bronze 40cal brush.

 

[Big Fred]

I do a modified version of what Smith Crazy told you to do. I take a "BRASS" 357 casing and flair the mouth slightly more than you would need to set in a bullet. I then tap it into the chambers and it acts as a cutter and removes almost all of the buildup crud from shooting 38's. Then you can clean up whats left easy with a brush and solvent.

 

[Rule3]

Originally posted by Big Fred:
I do a modified version of what Smith Crazy told you to do. I take a "BRASS" 357 casing and flair the mouth slightly more than you would need to set in a bullet. I then tap it into the chambers and it acts as a cutter and removes almost all of the buildup crud from shooting 38's. Then you can clean up whats left easy with a brush and solvent.

OK, now I get it. Good tip. Thanks!

 

[bogman]

I quit using Blue Dot because of high pressure signs, even in medium velocity loads. with lead bullets, I use Unique in all my loads. super accurate & no pressure signs. I load .38,.357,.45acp. some jacketed bullets in .45acp, all very accurate.

 

[Paul5388]

The 49th Edition of Lyman says you can use 10.5 gr of Blue Dot with a 158 gr LSWC with a CCI 550 magnum primer (40,800 cup). The start load is 8.5 gr. at 21,500 cup. Those were with 358156 that are gas checked and actually are supposed to generate more pressure than the 358477.

This isn't the first time the Blue Dot loads have been too high, but no one seems to want to talk about anything other than SPEER #8 loads of SR 4756. I've never gotten pressure signs with SR 4756, at a lot higher velocity, but I get too much pressure with book loads of Blue Dot.

I guess that's why I have 7-8# of Blue Dot and never use it in handgun loads.

 

[lafayne]

Power Tune Engine Cleaner - available at your local Mercury outboard dealer - is another product I have found very useful for removing carbon. It is formulated to remove carbon from engine heads.

 

[bmcgilvray]

Though there's nothing wrong with doing it, I've never been entirely happy with using .38 Special cases in my .357 Magnum revolvers. Though I clean a firearm after each use I use the .357 Magnum case for all loads mild to wild.

 

[Rule3]

Well, I bought the Blue Dot when I was "young and foolish"

I have 2 lbs left and that will be the end of that. Too many others to use.

 

[keppelj]

Best medicine I've found for cleaning cylinder chambers and throats (and the throats will close with time) is a stainless steel chamber brush, spiral design same as the bronze ones. Bronze brushes wont do the job. The slightly belled casing sounds good too tho the brush would be easier, I think. No tool making, no tapping.

 

[SlamFire]

I don't like Blue Dot. I tested Blue Dot in a number of revolvers and it only worked well with JHP and magnum loads. Cast bullets leaded.

As for pressures, well the load is too hot for your revolver. Sorry, that was my experience too.

2400 is a better powder in the 357. I got higher velocities without sticking.

Smith & Wesson M27-2

158 LRN 9.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F
Ave Vel = 1203
Std Dev = 29.22
ES = 120.8
High = 1261
Low = 1141
N = 22

Accurate, Difficult extraction, leading

158 LRN 10.0 grains Blue Dot CCI500 Midway cases
5-Aug-06 T = 102 °F
Ave Vel = 1290
Std Dev = 24.91
ES = 88.15
High = 1324
Low = 1235
N = 20
v. Accurate, Difficult extraction,heavy leading

 

[Rule3]

Slamfire,

Thank you for your data. Where were you shooting at 102 degrees??

It's amazing how much variation there is in load data depending on what source is used.
I thought I was loading at the low end. My Lee Modern shows a start of 9.4 and a max of 10.3.
As I mentioned in a previous reply, I did not "feel' that the loads were "hot" out of a 2.5" barrel. They were not mild by any means but not extreme. The second time I shot them without shooting any 38's first they were much easier to extract. Still required a bit of force to get them out but not to bad.

I have 2400 and H110 but would like to use up 2lbs of Blue Dot as I have nothing else to use it for, unless I try it my 30 cal carbine which was discussed in another thread.

 

[S/W - Lifer]

I'm another guy that tried Blue Dot and found it to give higher pressures than I liked with cast bullets.

On another note, I worked up .357 loads in a Model 66 and finally went to an N-frame. The K-frame magnums are great guns but my experience was they have limits. You just need to be prudent in working up your loads and watch pressure signs.