Why Are "Pre 64" Winchesters Desirable?

I'm a little bit country.......and a little bit rock & roll!!!! Bob (can't remember who said that......some red neck comedian!!!)[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking Donny and Marie Osmand.Real comedy.Maybe not "redneck".

Merry Christmas,D.G.
 
I just am not into synthetic stocks, stainless steel, fiber optic sights, anything "tactical" looking, baked on finishs, ray gun looking futuristic lines, or pine, brich or whatever they are trying to use for stocks lately.
Now most of this stuff works, or I suppose they wouldnt sell it.
I just am into fine blue, nice real walnut wood, conventional old lines, and close tolerances. What killed critters 50 years farther and back still works today. I dont need new super calibers, I dont belive any critters has through eveloution gotten tougher.
Far as cars go, now they use all plastic and tin can metal and try to tell me its to make them more survivable in a crash, when we all know the real reason is it costs less to make. Also they use all computer stuff so you cant work on them yourself. They have you by the short hair at the garage!
I will concede tires, brakes and engines last longer. However, buying a new car today is almost as much fun as buying a new refridgerator!
 
The trouble with all the new firearms technology that is now on the market is that I'm not through playing with the old stuff yet.

Some of the firearms I purchased new in the 1970s are now somewhat collectible though semi-obsolete (in the minds of current shooters) and the ones that were just used guns, 20-100 years old, are now high-dollar and only fit for safe queen duty.
 
Very nice .257 Roberts minuteman! What year was it manufactured?

BryanWendy003.jpg

Here's a 1947 Model 70 in .257 Roberts that I enjoy using on Texas whitetails. It's decent though not as nice as yours.
 
My Dad gave me his Pre 64 Winchester Model 70 in 270 Win made in 1953 in the early 90's. My son while Elk hunting took a nasty fall with it in a rock slide while hunting pretty much destroying the stock and making a large gouge in the barrel. I ended up taking it to the Colorado school of trades in Denver and having the barrel fixed and reblued in a matt plus and I had them install a custom stock on it. It's not a collector gun but it's a tacking driving hunting gun that will stay in the family long after I'm taking the dirt nap. You probably guessed that the son that took the fall with it will be the caretaker of this fine rifle after I'm gone. He was so upset when he did that to my Dad's rifle that he didn't want to come back to hunting camp that day and I told him that sometomes things happen and not to worry.
 
bmcgilvraym, it's a 54 model, pretty nice rifle. Hate to say it but I've had it a couple years and never fired it.
 
.257 Roberts M/70.............

Both of those .257 roberts M/70's are great rifles, I lucked into my current one several years ago at a small gun show. It's a pre-war, I got it for a little more than $500.00 OTD.
 
I can't put my finger on just exactly when, but it seems all new consumer products (with the exception of electronics) aren't as good and cost more. Maybe it was in the late '60's or early '70's when the wife had to go to work just to maintain the same standard of living, and taxes started to skyrocket. Winchester wasn't the only company that went for cheapening their product. Browning went to Japan for its production(some say their salt wood problem forced them to). Turkey and Russia now come to mind for cheaply produced guns. Pressed checkering and maple/birch stocks became the norm for a lot of manufacturers. And now the plastic guns abound. You can still get the old quality at a cost. Note that the S&W "Classics" go for over a thousand dollars. A Belgian Superposed is over $10,000. I don't like what's happened, but it has. I'll keep on seeking the "old stuff" that is in great condition for my collection.
 
A wiki entry:

1964 through 1991 Model 70

Competing as it did with the Remington Model 700, it was decided that changes needed to be made in the face of rising labour costs. Accordingly, in 1964 Winchester made a number of design changes to the Model 70. Few to none of these changes were popular with the rifle-buying public, or with the US Military. The changes included dropping the controlled round feed feature, a change to the basic stock shape and the use of impressed chequering rather than cut chequering.

Jack O'Connor, long a proponent of the Model 70, wrote about the post-'64 version that ". . .I was informed by Winchester brass that the Model 70 was being redesigned. I told them that I was glad to get the information so I could lay in four or five more before they loused the rifle up. Then I saw the pilot model of 'New Model 70.' At the first glimpse I like to fell into a swoon. The action was simplified, the trigger guard and floor plate made of a flimsy looking one-piece stamping." Despite this initial reaction, O'Connor grudgingly went on to say, "Actually the post-1964 Model 70 is not a bad rifle in spite of the fact that rifle aficionados have never taken it to their bosoms the way they did its predecessor. It is a stronger action than the pre-1964. The head of the bolt encloses the head of the case. It has a small, neat hook extractor, which is adequate. With this extractor the cartridge is not as surely controlled as it is with the Mauser-type extractor. However, the new model seldom gives feeding problems."[5]
[edit] Post '64 Model 70 Action (Push Feed)

In order to reduce manufacturing costs in the face of higher labour rates, rifles manufactured from 1964 to 1992 differed from early Model 70s in the following ways:

* The bolt was changed significantly. The bolt face was enclosed so that it fully surrounded the cartridge rim, in a similar way to the Remington 700 bolt. While cheaper to manufacture than the undercut bolt face needed for controlled feed actions, it is also stronger, providing more support to the cartridge case head, and better contains escaping gases in the event of a case rupture. The new bolt also differed from the old in that (also like the Remington 700) it was manufactured in 3 pieces (the bolt head, body and handle) and brazed together. The brazing is so well done it is very difficult to see the joints. There is no compromise in strength due to the 3-piece construction.

* The Mauser-type non-rotating claw type extractor (incompatible with a fully-enclosed bolt head) was replaced with a small wedge type extractor that does not engage the cartridge rim as it rises from the magazine to the chamber but rather pushes the cartridge into the chamber. As the bolt handle is turned down into the locked position, the new extractor clips over the cartridge rim. The new extractor is perfectly reliable, although it grips less of the case rim and is not as elegant as the Mauser-type claw extractor.

* Hammer-forged barrels were introduced.

* The machined steel trigger guard and floor plate were replaced with parts made from an aluminium alloy to reduce weight using the assembly from the pre-1964 Featherweight version.

* Some models featured walnut stocks with chequering that was impressed onto the wood rather than cut into it as on the early Model 70's, further reducing manufacturing costs.

The new action was severely criticized by riflemen for its lesser amount of control and its supposed unreliability, making the original action even more prized. In reality, many of the changes could be considered improvements, making the action stronger [6]. Any post-'64 Model 70 rifle that is not designated as a "Classic" is most likely to have the post-'64 action. For normal use, the action through its design is no less reliable, although the simplified construction is less elegant. This action has been further improved over the years, and is now generally on par with the CRF action. Because the bolt does not actively grip the cartridge until the bolt handle is turned down into the locked position, the post-'64 system is supposedly more vulnerable to jamming or being inadvertently closed on an empty breech (i.e. failing to load a new round) if operated under duress, especially if the rifle is held upside down or on its side. In design terms (enclosed bolt face, plunger ejector, 3-piece brazed bolt construction) it is fairly similar to the Remington Model 700 which has a worldwide following and is considered to be very reliable. All things considered, in normal situations there is not much to choose between them, apart from personal preference.
 

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