Why I could never be a Baltimore police officer...

[Beemerguy53]

Baltimore cops are under more scrutiny from their prior bad acts.

Working in inner-city Baltimore for 30 years, I saw many good cops...and some really bad ones. Yes, there have been problems in the BPD, most notably with the infamous Gun Trace Task Force, whose members got nationwide notoriety -- and long jail sentences.

Having said that, there is a sad dynamic in Baltimore (and in many other cities around the country): The citizens want something done about crime, but they won't support the police. And everybody, from reporters to politicians, feels qualified to second-guess cops and tell them how they should have handled a given situation.

 

[RetCapt]

BPD may be under scrutiny from their prior bad acts as jschmidt states, but if that is as far as it goes, there will never be a solution, regardless of scrutiny.

One thing I have been informed of by those I know still in the profession is the practice of compromising standards in order to fill openings. This never has a good ending.

One example I read of around a year ago involved Baltimore PD. In the basic academy too many cadets failed a criminal law exam. The solution was to discard the exam. Based on my LE experience, along with a lot of experience as an instructor of LE subjects, with an emphasis on legal (including force/deadly force) subjects I see this as a very questionable decision. I phrase it diplomatically because I have not seen the exam. If I were to see it, I could tell instantly whether or not it was relevant. Anyone with similar LE administrative experience could do the same, but I don't know if that was done. But that assessment, not student performance, should be the determining factor on whether or not to keep using the exam.

If this exam was state created, as they are in CA, if the students fail then that means they don't the ability to acquire the knowledge to do the LE job. Standards exist for valid reasons, and this is a product of compromising standards, perhaps over a period of several decades as it has become more and more difficult to fill vacancies.

Bringing us up to now, and the situation Beemerguy 53 describes, how is Baltimore PD going to attract qualified (with no compromises of standards) applicants?

One of the situations retired LEOs commonly face is counselling young persons contemplating LE careers. The most common advice I give such idealistic young people is to avoid jurisdictions where the political odds are stacked against them. Baltimore PD, along with too many others to even start to list, is an example.

In departments where there is a history of bad acts, those responsible must of course be dealt with, but not as virgins to be thrown into the volcano of activist political outrage, and then go on from there, rather than penalizing all the LEOs still left in the department, as seems to be the practice now. One question that needs to be raised in each such instance is what the qualifications were when an LEO involved in any unlawful act was hired. Were the standards compromised to fill openings, to create diversity, to satisfy constituent groups, to signal virtue, to satisfy quotas, to ameliorate the media? If that is the situation then it is a death warrant for any sort of civil society.

That appears to be the situation in the city of Baltimore. But they don't seem to care. It is just easier to scapegoat the LEOs rather than to work with them (emphasis on 'with') with the objective of attracting the most highly qualified applicants. There is no draft available here. If a jurisdiction fails to attract highly qualified applicants they have only themselves to blame.

I can't generate any optimism here.

 

[Beemerguy53]

RetCapt, thanks for your comments. You've identified a number of key issues and articulated them well.

Baltimore has been in death spiral for decades, with only brief flashes of renaissance. Police officers (and firefighters, school teachers, and others who work for the city government) are woefully underpaid compared to their counterparts in surrounding jurisdictions. That, combined with the lack of citizen and political support, really hurts the BPD.

I live in a small town two counties away from the City of Baltimore. There are about 25 police officers in our town, and many of them are former BPD officers who cut their teeth there, got some valuable experience, and then left for a less-stressful, less-demanding work environment.

It's a tough situation, and getting worse. The violence in the city is shocking, even by American urban standards. Just last weekend, there were, if memory serves me, 13 shootings in two days, and seven or eight of those were fatal. With only about 585,000 citizens, Baltimore is on track to have more than 350 homicides this year...it's terrible.

 

[jimmyj]

BPD Shooting

According to Wiki:

"The primary service weapon of the (BPD) is the Glock 22 .40 caliber pistol, replacing the Glock 17 9mm pistol."

My old Agency went from S&W Model 64 .38, to Glock Model 17 9mm, to Glock Model 22 .40, to Glock Model 21 .45acp, now back to Glock 9mm ??

 

[JOliver]

Being a 3rd generation law Enforcement officer, and holding the rank of Chief for the last 7 years, I can absolutely tell you that nobody knows what a true Officer/Deputy/Agent goes through until you are one and have done it for some time. Some folks think they do, they do not. I thought I did, I was raised in it, I had no idea. The general public has a perception of what they think we should do sometimes they're close, sometimes they're wrong. The training and experience is the real stuff. There are so many variables to play in cases like this and politicians and opinions in general get in the way of facts and knowledge.
I have been in numerous lawsuits where my guys did their jobs but sometimes it comes down to checks being cut and deals being made and lawyers getting paid.
I don't paint us as big heroes like some, we signed up for it mainly because something deep down makes us want to help folks and that's truly what I believe we get to do, help people when they're at their worst.
Im not sure what's going to become of the profession in the future, I go to the schools and talk and none of the younger generation have any ambition to become an Officer, as time goes on I do not blame them. I have definitely had my times here lately where I wondered just why in the world I signed up. I have seen guys lose a lot of things doing this job, money, sobriety, families and sanity. I support law enforcement and always will I know what most of us are about and it's good against evil and I HATE the climate these days just the slight accusations of officers being evil makes me sick and it's an absolute hoax. I won't comment on this particular event I didn't even watch it I just wanted to add my 2 cents and say until you walk in another man's shoes.... same thing but factor the adrenaline,stress,the fact that handgun rounds aren't affective on the human body until some suspect gets shot then the defense rises.

 

[John Patrick]

Last Sunday, Baltimore Police responded to an intersection in West Baltimore where a man was threatening a woman with a butcher knife. The first officer on the scene shot the perp, who died from his wounds.

Here's yesterday's BPD press briefing on that incident, including the body camera footage from the officers. The uniformed gentleman speaking is BPD Commissioner Michael Harrison, who leads the Department.

There are four outside agencies (federal, state, local, and civil rights) investigating this shooting, which is SOP here. In Baltimore, it's okay for young men to slaughter each other by the dozens, but when a police officer shoots someone, the community loses its mind, so there must be umpteen inquiries to ensure that "justice" is done.

Note reporters' questions toward the end of the video, and the clear skepticism about whether this shooting was justified. Kudos to Commissioner Harrison for defending his officers.

I spent 30 years in the Baltimore City Fire Department, in the area where this occurred, and used to tell the Baltimore cops I encountered that I could never do their job, because I don't have the required patience to deal with idiots, and the cars aren't big enough to hold all the ammo I would want to carry.

These officers saved that woman's life...God bless them.

LIVE: BPD releasing bodycam video from Sunday's fatal shooting - on.wbaltv.com/3G3ldES - YouTube

A couple guys I know started as cops in Baltimore City. Every one ended up in Baltimore County to escape the city, and that was before the anti police movement.

 

[The Last Standing Knight]

Being a 3rd generation law Enforcement officer, and holding the rank of Chief for the last 7 years, I can absolutely tell you that nobody knows what a true Officer/Deputy/Agent goes through until you are one and have done it for some time. Some folks think they do, they do not. I thought I did, I was raised in it, I had no idea. The general public has a perception of what they think we should do sometimes they're close, sometimes they're wrong. The training and experience is the real stuff. There are so many variables to play in cases like this and politicians and opinions in general get in the way of facts and knowledge.
I have been in numerous lawsuits where my guys did their jobs but sometimes it comes down to checks being cut and deals being made and lawyers getting paid.
I don't paint us as big heroes like some, we signed up for it mainly because something deep down makes us want to help folks and that's truly what I believe we get to do, help people when they're at their worst.
Im not sure what's going to become of the profession in the future, I go to the schools and talk and none of the younger generation have any ambition to become an Officer, as time goes on I do not blame them. I have definitely had my times here lately where I wondered just why in the world I signed up. I have seen guys lose a lot of things doing this job, money, sobriety, families and sanity. I support law enforcement and always will I know what most of us are about and it's good against evil and I HATE the climate these days just the slight accusations of officers being evil makes me sick and it's an absolute hoax. I won't comment on this particular event I didn't even watch it I just wanted to add my 2 cents and say until you walk in another man's shoes.... same thing but factor the adrenaline,stress,the fact that handgun rounds aren't affective on the human body until some suspect gets shot then the defense rises.

JOliver, I have sent you a private message.

 

[ameridaddy]

... Were the standards compromised to fill openings, to create diversity, to satisfy constituent groups, to signal virtue, to satisfy quotas, to ameliorate the media? If that is the situation then it is a death warrant for any sort of civil society.

...

Your words of wisdom apply way beyond police work, and speak to any organization; - corporation, government department, school faculty, Boy Scouts, any organization that needs and wants to be excellent at what it does.
Bravo - well said.

 

[pantannojack]

Would a Thompson like Sgt Saunders carried be more effective? Why did the white T Shirt cross behind in the ricochet zone?

 

[Miracle Man]

I wonder if those reporters would question the justification of a shooting if they were pinned to the ground by a man with a butcher knife ?

And I didn't hear a single question about if the victim was ok. It's sad where the media has taken reporting to.

 

[Puller]

I wonder if those reporters would question the justification of a shooting if they were pinned to the ground by a man with a butcher knife ?

And I didn't hear a single question about if the victim was ok. It's sad where the media has taken reporting to.

The questions those reporters asked justifies the little respect I hold for the profession.

Really, the BPD officers didn't happen upon the scene, they were called there by request of those in the community. Funny how they all hate the police but that's who they call to get them out of a jam. If they were worried about the life of a crazed man with a butcher knife who was assaulting a woman maybe they should have called someone else.

 

[ron_c]

He "only" had a knife.

He only had a knife! | Deputy Matt & Others Who Serve • LawNews.TV(R) (Protective Law Corporation) Duringer, Lawyer

 

[Old cop]

I spent the first two years as a big city cop in a really tough area. Worked with many very good cops but some really bad ones too, and they got all the ink. It got embarrassing to be associated w/that department so I left for a medium sized agency w/a solid reputation. Spent 28 years there and it was the best move I ever made.

 

[K Frame Keith]

I don't know what else I would have done in the place of my LE career, but I wouldn't even consider doing it again.

 

[Skeet 028]

Beemerguy...Did you look at the last newsletter from the City F&P retirement. Did you count how many cops pulled the plug...especially compared to the fire side? Tried to make us Public Safety years ago...doing both jobs. Not on a bet. I remember the riots of 68. Never wanted to be a cop...and don't know how so many can do the job in today's environment

 

[wood714]

If you listen to the reporters' questions toward the end of the video, that's exactly the issue they're raising...that the perp "only" had a knife and was it necessary to shoot him so many times.

Living in this region, and seeing the public reaction to most police shootings, I'm surprised nobody demanded to know why the officer didn't shoot the knife out of the perp's hand...

I've seen a few videos about knife vs gun situations.

The way that dude was taking shots, had he been standing he would have carved the cop most good.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h0-q_IJbxE[/ame]

 

[16thVACav]

" He needed shootin' "

(Unknown Texas philosopher)

 

[Beemerguy53]

Beemerguy...Did you look at the last newsletter from the City F&P retirement. Did you count how many cops pulled the plug...especially compared to the fire side? Tried to make us Public Safety years ago...doing both jobs. Not on a bet. I remember the riots of 68. Never wanted to be a cop...and don't know how so many can do the job in today's environment

I noted throughout my career that most police officers pulled the plug as soon as they reached the minimum age for retirement, while most firefighters stayed on the job as long as they were physically able.

Coincidentally, today is the 48th anniversary of the start of my career...and of the 55 of us who were in my class, one guy is actually still working. I did almost 31 years. We really did have the best job in the world...

 

[ussmanlovede36]

I was born in Baltimore and worked in the city across from Fells Point at Procter & Gamble for 22 years. I never want to go anywhere in Baltimore City now. We love living in Gettysburg Pa and will never go back.

 

[mtgianni]

…

All said, the real question is how long the shooter's partner remains on the job? He was truly useless. And failed totally. Should be terminated in my opinion.
Be safe.

Officer #1 was totally focused on the deceased. We don't see Officer #2's field of vision but I would assume he was looking at the numerous onlookers that were on both sides of the street. If one of them had brought a gun into play against Officer #1 it may have been his job to spot it. Active vehicle traffic as well. There were plenty of reasons to keep one person by the vehicle especially someone who still is not fully certified.

Asst. Commissioner said he was controlling ambulance and other responders. I would say that as well rather than mentioning a shooter might be coming from the people on the street.