Why I think new reloaders should start with a single stage

[cddanjr]

Bought a Lee turret press, removed the turning rod in the center, learned one step at a time. Got a very sore back popping out primers on 1500 brass the very first time! ouch. Since then, have put the turning rod back in, got rid of the digital scale, use time and patience.

Now, I have never had a bunny fart load, double load, or any other catastrophic goof. I dont load that way, I planned out a safe, step by step loading plan.

Yes I am very new to reloading, and plan on doing it for a long time. This is how you get to do it for a very long time, read and learn, support and encourage others.

Buying a single stage press is a waste of time and money for me.

The Lee turret does the same job and now I dont have to get rid of the single stage press, and buy the Lee turret I know have.

 

[Rule3]

Don't forget that a calculator rarely blows up in your hand.

Lets not forget all the early models that actual did do that, It was the batteries.

 

[Rule3]

That's your idea of a thread contribution? Wow.

I guess that fits with the fact that in 7 years you haven't liked anyone's post.

Actually Mr Bean is very knowledgeable about reloading, and has had some very useful information.

He just does not play well with others.

 

[venomballistics]

I fully agree with the single stage starting point.
while a progressive may largely replace it. there are some operations better suited for a single stage press, such as short runs for testing or special purpose, or disassembly of some blooper loads. One never really outgrows a single stage press.

Before the single stage finds itself in these duties, it is as simple a tool as one can have, thus removing the layers of press specific mechanics from the learning curve where the user can just focus on the essentials such as die adjustments and charge weights, and not on progressive press mechanics and quirks due to short cycles and adjustments specific to them.

 

[dla]

Bought a Lee turret press

The Lee Classic Turret is the best entry-level press for the $. It is the only non-progressive press I recommend to noobs.

Single-stage press users are the ones who post pictures of their blown revolvers asking our opinion on the cause - because they can't get their head around the fact that they double-charged a round. All it takes is a brain fart while using Titegroup with a load block - BOOM! Ends all the supposed superiority of fondling each cartridge with a single-stage.

You have to be very creative to double-charge a round on an auto-indexing progressive. Very creative on a Dillon machine. Very difficult to make a squib also.

Minimizing the human element from the reloading process is what makes an auto-indexing progressive so much safer. Machines don't have "senior-moments".

Regarding the myth of "higher quality ammo" from a single-stage, look at what the top shooters in the nation use - Dillon machines. Or read up on the review of high-dollar turret presses that Joe at RealGuns did to get an understanding of an objective way to measure the "quality". Darn few shooters can shoot to the limit of their weapon and even fewer can measure the effect of the reloading machine used - don't fool yourself.

Finally, something to remember. Just because somebody's been doing something a certain way for a long time doesn't mean that it can't be improved upon. The old saying "if ain't broke don't fix it" is a lazy man's objection to progress.

The single-stage press has it's place, but it is NOT safer or easier to learn on. It is just slower and more human-error prone.

 

[Bkreutz]

I use both. I use a Lee turret (old one, no auto index) to develop loads and to load small runs of calibers I don't shoot a lot. Once I find the load I want to use in competition I transfer my results over to the Dillon 650. I could develop the loads on the 650 but it's easier on a single stage. I load 1000 to 1300 rounds of 9mm a week so to me a single stage is not an option for that caliber. I actually spend more time prepping the brass than I do loading them.

 

[Jellybean]

Look who arose from the ashes! You only contribute when you want to bash someone or something. Go back into hiding.

I have no qualifications unlike you who are qualified in all things.

You do not post any helpful info for all these new reloaders. Their questions might have been avoided had they learned the basics to start with.

You can debate all you want, you do not have to agree (which you never do) so write your own thread.

I've been back from the ashes for a little while now, and nothing has changed. The point of my post here was that you admitted a topic was beaten to death then tried to keep it one sided by saying you didn't want to debate it.

I post things I feel need to be posted and don't waste cyberspace by repeatedly posting things over and over and over... Which is why it may seem to you that I never agree with you, once someone gives good information I don't feel the need to repeat it. If all the posts are one sided and I don't agree, then I will let the poster know so they can choose what they want to do. If there is something I feel needs to be added to a good response I will post then too. Many of the questions these "new reloaders" ask don't really need to be asked if they'd only read a good reliable book, or even a good reliable loading manual.

By the way, I never "Google" for answers either, and I don't care how may posts I make just to hear myself type. If my posts bother you that much use your "ignore" feature. If you don't know how it works, remember "Google is your friend".

 

[blujax01]

The point if there is one, is that a single stage press alone will run $100 to $150. A really nice Rockchucker. It can be used for ever. It can be sold, it is a small price to pay when you consider how much you end up paying for all the equipment and components in reloading.

As far as price is concerned, you are correct. You will get no argument from me.

And I do hope you realize that I'm having fun here.

If a person thinks they should use a progressive, or if a person thinks they should not use a progressive, they're probably both right!

 

[Rule3]

I've been back from the ashes for a little while now, and nothing has changed. The point of my post here was that you admitted a topic was beaten to death then tried to keep it one sided by saying you didn't want to debate it.

I post things I feel need to be posted and don't waste cyberspace by repeatedly posting things over and over and over... Which is why it may seem to you that I never agree with you, once someone gives good information I don't feel the need to repeat it. If all the posts are one sided and I don't agree, then I will let the poster know so they can choose what they want to do. If there is something I feel needs to be added to a good response I will post then too. Many of the questions these "new reloaders" ask don't really need to be asked if they'd only read a good reliable book, or even a good reliable loading manual.

By the way, I never "Google" for answers either, and I don't care how may posts I make just to hear myself type. If my posts bother you that much use your "ignore" feature. If you don't know how it works, remember "Google is your friend".

I even went so far as to give you a semi compliment. Apparently you can not read and comprehend. I never said it was non debatable.

My first sentence was it was:
"OK, this is JMO. Not starting a debate over brands or styles of presses. That has been hashed and beaten to a pulp!"

Then I said:

"You can disagree all you want, just stating my view. Yes, it is slow production but if it's a hobby who cares?, if you need tons of ammo for competition , then no it's not for you."

But you have to reply in a rude and snarky way.

Who mentioned Google

So with all your qualifications write your own thread and tell us all the best way for a newbee to learn, according to you.

Based on responses from this forum you are in the minority.

Go take a Dale Carnegie Course or something.

 

[Jellybean]

That's your idea of a thread contribution? Wow.

I guess that fits with the fact that in 7 years you haven't liked anyone's post.

Well, I had typed up a long response, but then noticed it wasn't a "debate". And if you want my contribution, look at all the other times this topic came up "for debate" over the years.

When I joined this forum seven years ago it wasn't an internet dating site. There were no "Likes" and no "Friends". It was a place where you could come and ask a question or help someone else that had one. I don't care if anyone likes my posts or wants to be my friend, if I can help someone that needs help, real help, I'll help them.

And with that thought in mind, since you are so offended by my not "liking" anyones posts, I'll give you a like so you can get in touch with your inner feelings. Just think of it as a cyber hug.

 

[Engineer1911]

Next week return for the next exciting chapter of "What press do I need?"

Opinions get stronger as time marches on. Upcoming topics include: ".308 Win vs 30-'06" , "30-30 is obsolete" , "Semi-auto vs revolver accuracy test", and finally "Only 2 handgun powders -- Bullseye and 2400" . More rifle and shotgun topics coming next month.

Engineering update: slide rules do multiplication, trig functions, exponential functions and logrithms. Adding and subtracting requires pencil & paper or an adding machine. Calculators not allowed. Today's pocket calculators have more "computer power" than John Glenn's Mercury 7 space capsule.

 

[Bohica793]

... Next week, Rule3 and Maximum Bob explain why newbies should be required to make their load computations using a slide rule before they are allowed to use a calculator!

gotcha'!

Prior to being allowed slide rules, they must first demonstrate the capability of performing the calculations long hand with pencil and paper.

Gotcha back....

 

[blujax01]

Prior to being allowed slide rules, they must first demonstrate the capability of performing the calculations long hand with pencil and paper.

Gotcha back....

You are bringing back some horrible memories. In 1971, before our teacher would show us how to do logarithms on our slide rules we indeed had to derive one longhand. Several pages of calculations, each more tedious than the next.

 

[pmhayden]

I got into reloading with a SS press. I would never have started if I had to get a Dillon or other more complex or expensive machine. That's all. There is definitely a place for SS presses. Mine changed my shooting game. I appreciate that I could get a quality machine for under $200. And I am not a rocket scientist. Slow works for me.

 

[Engineer1911]

I paid $75 for my first RockChucker in 1974. In 1976, I made a 10" handle for it in a machine shop lab. That 10" handle let me crank out a 100 rounds an hour on that RockChucker. Course I only had 150 pieces of 357 mag brass for my Ruger blue 6" Security Six.

 

[handejector]

Fair Warning

Fair Warning-

This Reloading forum will change.
This forum is going to operate at the same tone level seen on the rest of this board.
You know (maybe)- common courtesy, allowing others to have an opinion (even if wrong in your eyes), no personal attacks, etc.
The feuds, vendettas, and ongoing pissing contests are over.
Use the Ignore feature if you need to.
The Rules are posted here now. Read them, then apply.
If you are operating under the delusion that this a fiefdom run by one or a few members, you are wrong.
I and the Staff run it.
All members here have equal value, and equal status.

Feel free to make me prove these things.


___________________________

OK, this is JMO. Not starting a debate over brands or styles of presses. That has been hashed and beaten to a pulp!

Apparently it hasn't been hashed and beaten to a pulp enough. Now what are your qualifications and credentials to make that undebateable opinion?

Nice.
Why not just click out of here?

__________________________

Look who arose from the ashes! You only contribute when you want to bash someone or something. Go back into hiding.

I have no qualifications unlike you who are qualified in all things.

You do not post any helpful info for all these new reloaders. Their questions might have been avoided had they learned the basics to start with.

You can debate all you want, you do not have to agree (which you never do) so write your own thread.

Nope.
Use the to report a post, and WE will handle it.

________________

I post things I feel need to be posted and don't waste cyberspace by repeatedly posting things over and over and over...

We got plenty of cyberspace. They make it everyday. I got the tab anyway.
OR
Think of repeated arguments as a waste of cyberspace. Maybe that'll help.

__________________________

If my posts bother you that much use your "ignore" feature. If you don't know how it works, remember "Google is your friend".

Excellent advice. Try it yourself.
___________________________

When I joined this forum seven years ago it wasn't an internet dating site. There were no "Likes" and no "Friends". It was a place where you could come and ask a question or help someone else that had one. I don't care if anyone likes my posts or wants to be my friend, if I can help someone that needs help, real help, I'll help them.

And with that thought in mind, since you are so offended by my not "liking" anyones posts, I'll give you a like so you can get in touch with your inner feelings. Just think of it as a cyber hug.

Sorry I wrecked it for ya!
I understand Glocktalk and Sig Forum are still open if you prefer their tone level.