Why so few 27-3s?

stevieboy

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I recently purchased a 27-3 4 incher, which I instantly fell in love with. When I bought it I assumed -- pardon my naivete -- that I was buying a pretty run of the mill model 27. But, it's becoming pretty apparent to me that 27-3s are greatly outnumbered by 27-2s and, maybe other earlier 27 iterations. I just don't see any of them being advertised on Gunbroker nor do I see much discussion about them on these pages.

Why's that? I realize that the -3 isn't pinned or recessed and that would make it somewhat less desirable for collectors. But, the 4" barrel is also a bit of a rarity for 27s (or, am I wrong about that?) and I'd also assume that Smith made a fair number of 27-3s in that style (or, am I wrong about that, too?)

So, someone, please explain to me why 27-3s don't seem to be discussed all that often and why we don't seem to see very many of them for sale.
 
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During the years the Model 27-3 was being made and sold, public demand for handguns focused on the high capacity, 9mm semiautomatics. Large, heavy double action revolvers like this one of yours were slow sellers. So, S&W used their production capacity to produce other guns that were in more demand.
 
My 27-3 was my first N-frame; I've still got it...paid $350 for it at a gunshow in Leesburg, VA ten years ago. It has some of the tightest lockup of all my Smiths (and I've got a few).

--Neill
 
Also, the L frames (Models 586, 686, 581, 681) were brand new then, and many folks looking for a .357 revolver bought one of those. The N frame grip is too big for some hands, and the L frame, with it's K frame grip dimensions, gave more people a better grip.
 
There's a reason for that. As Buff said, they fit a much larger assortment of people's hands than the other frame sizes do, which makes the gun more appealing to the general population.
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I have large hands, and like the N frame, but the K/L still fits me as well as, or better than the N frame.
 
What generally is missed in these discussions is a bit of history. Throughout the 70's, the Model 27, from a retail standpoint, was a real dog for most dealers. They did not sell, and models of all barrel lengths could be found collecting dust on a regular basis. The real movers in the 357 world were the M19/66, from a law enforcement standpoint they were much more in demand. Then, add in the introduction of the L frames at the same time as the M27-3's came out, and you'll see that demand was much less for a large frame 357 mag.
The fascination for the M27 and predecessors is a more recent phenomenon, driven by collectors and others desiring something that hasen't been made for awhile.
 
Fascinating. It had never occurred to me to buy an N-frame .357 until quite recently. I own a 686 and a 66 no-dash and both of them are super guns. Some of you may recall that I debated with myself (and with your help) whether to buy a Classic 27. I finally settled on the 27-3 model that I found on an auction site.

What a pleasure this gun is! Perhaps due to the fact that I have very large hands it feels as if it were designed for me. It locks up as tightly as any gun I own and it is extraordinarily accurate. Great trigger, too, especially double action. In short, I'm in love with it and it has become by far and away my favorite handgun.

My remaining question is: what motivated Smith, after years of producing its 27 as a 3 1/2 gun (plus longer barrel lengths, of course), to start offering it as a 4 incher? The extra 1/2 inch wouldn't seem to make all that much of a difference in terms of bullet velocity, ease of carry, etc. So, why do it? Was it because, perhaps of the popularity of the 19, 65 and 66 as 4 inchers?
 
I believe the answer to the question of why the 4-inch N-frames were made instead of the 3 1/2 - inchers was economy due to standardization. It was more economical to produce only 4, 6 and 8 3/8 - inch barreled guns. Odder barrel lengths like 3 1/2", 5" and 6.5" were eliminated in this process except for special runs for distributers like Lew Horton. This applied not only to the 27, but the 29 and 58 and maybe others at about the time the P&R features were eliminated. I have a 624 3" N-frame, but it was a special run for Horton.
 
Originally posted by Gun 4 Fun:
I have large hands, and like the N frame, but the K/L still fits me as well as, or better than the N frame.
The best size for my own hand is the one of the new target stocks that S&W puts on the actual N frame. Its is a bit thinner than the old ones...
 
My remaining question is: what motivated Smith, after years of producing its 27 as a 3 1/2 gun (plus longer barrel lengths, of course), to start offering it as a 4 incher? The extra 1/2 inch wouldn't seem to make all that much of a difference in terms of bullet velocity, ease of carry, etc. So, why do it? Was it because, perhaps of the popularity of the 19, 65 and 66 as 4 inchers?

Believe me, is is somewhat of a mystery to me. Paladin's explanation seems plausible, but subsequent to that they re-introduced the 3 1/2 and 5" versions for a limited run. The fact that the M28 was avail with 4" and the L frame guns being primarily in that barrel length makes the decision to make the 4" kinda wierd to me. In fact, the 4" is the hardest to find barrel length in the M27 line, just due to the late introduction and, in my opinion, very slow sales due to the L frames and other options thereafter. Here is a chart showing the years that the different barrel lengths were catalog'd from my research a few years ago.

================================================
A few years back (about ~2000) I researched the M27 barrel lengths re: number of years each barrel length was "offered/cataloged" in S&W documents (Annual catalogs, All Model Circulars, Price lists). For Postwar manufacturing, the .357 Magnum (pre-M27) and Model 27 was offered in the following barrel lengths for the following number of years:

6 inch barrel.......- 1946 - 1994 - 49 years
8.375 inch barrel.- 1946 - 1991 - 46 years
3.5 inch barrel....- 1946 - 1979 - 34 years
5 inch barrel.......- 1946 - 1979 - 34 years
6.5 inch barrel....- 1946 - 1968 - 23 years
4 inch barrel.......- 1980 - 1991 - 12 years

Notes:

1-Prior to Cataloging the 4", Special orders accounted for all 4" Production
2-Model 27 sales (in general) very sluggish after the Model 19 introduced
3-Model 27 4" cataloged the first time in 1980, same year that the L frame was introduced
4-Duty usage of 4" M27 probably slow as compared to the (lower cost) M28 Highway Patrolman after 1954
5-Almost all Nickel 4" models noted to date have been around 1980 production M27-2, all with TT/TH/TS/WO/RR !!!!
6-Years cataloged may not directly correlate to actual production numbers, but it certainly speaks to general availability and order ability, after-all folks usually buy what is offered and knowing that the factory didn't usually build to order in later years, the ability of a consumer to call and order a non-cataloged barrel length had almost stopped by the mid 1970's.
7- The above is for "standard" production guns; it does not cover any Commemorative or re-issue special editions. (Both the 3.5 and 5" were re-introduced at least once) Update – the current Classic line info isn't included in the above. Nobody likes them anyway… ?
8- For those of us that remember the 1970's and the fact that Model 27's languished on store shelves for many many months back then, it's curious to think just what S&W was thinking when they introduced the 4" barrel length when they did - exactly the same time as the introduction of the L frame models. With poor sales of N frame 357 Magnum leading up to 1980, one has to wonder just how many 4" M27's actually sold during the years that they were cataloged. Can't be that many in the overall scheme of things. Whether you are interested in the pinned and recessed versions (-2), the transition models of the -3 or the regular -3 versions, there are not all that many to be found.

The above information is meant to note what the factory was offering, not production quantities. Based on the number of year's offered and general observations, the 4 inch model is the hardest to find.

It is amazing to me that the 3.5: and 5" are viewed as being the scarcest. In the NW, it seems like I see more 8.375" models than any others.
 
There were ads in the Shotgun News (would have been well before Dec.'95 when the FFL went away) for NIB blue or nickel 27's for $229. I think it was KY Imports or CDNN, long time ago. They had plenty. Joe
 
Hi, All:
I looked at a 6" Mod.27 no dash, today in a gun store. It had what looked like Roper checkered walnut grips, A late, and incorrect box, std.narrow trigger & hammer, and sights. The finish was, to me about 95%. There was a pronounced ring around the cylinder, about average, to me, and was good and tight. The store was asking $450.00. does that seem a bit to much? I realise that isn' a lot to go on, and I don't have pictures, but could you help with a price?
Chubbo
 
Hey chubbo
The gun you seen should be an "S" serial prefix and was built between 1957 to about 1960. The standard hammer and trigger would be correct for that time period. I would say the price is low, and if it DOES have Ropers on it the price is real low. I spent 10 days accross the river from you this winter!
IMHO jcelect
 
Chubbo ,grips notwithstanding ,$450. for a 4 screw Model 27 6 inch is a great price.
Doi check and see it might even be a 6 1/2in.

I have a 27, and a 27-2 6 in. and they are fantastic shooters.
Handle 357s with ease and grace, then shoot 38 wadcutters like they are 22s.


Smithnut ,, I think the math on your top line is off. Maybe you could check the production years on the 6 in. barrel.


Regards ,,,Allen F.
 
My 4-inch Model 27-3 was my first "real" handgun I owned. I don't count the RG I bought when I was a student. I think I've holstered it twice. It has seen the range a bit and worked as my nightstand gun for many years:
SW_Model_27_05a.jpg


Funny, I went into my favorite gun store today and they had several Model 27-2s in excellent condition. I picked out a six inch model and put it in layaway even though I have absolutely no need for one. I guess I have a soft spot for the 27s.
 
I remember, about 1979-1980, reading how Smith & Wesson was standardizing N frame barrel lengths to 4, 6 and 8-3/8 inch. M-29-2's went to 6 inch from 6-1/2 inch, M-27-2's from 3-1/2, 5 and 6-1/2 inch to 4 and 6 inch and M-25-2 from 6-1/2 to 6 inch. The M-28 and .41 Magnum M-57 had always been standard with 4, 6 (and 8-3/8 inch barrels in the M-57). The reason given was to 'standardize' to make production more efficient. It took a while for the old guns to filter their way through the sales networks.

It didn't last long.

The 1950 Target .44 Special was reintroduced in 1983 with a 6-1/2 inch option. Then came the M-24-3 and M-624 with a 3 inch barrel. Then, the 3 inch M-29's, M-629's...

"Standardization" didn't last long.
 
Hi, All:
Thanks for the advice and info. on the Mod.27 no dash revolver, that I asked about. I went back and looked a couple more times and finally came home with it. The grips don't turn me on, and there was no paper, tools, or box with it, but the dealer came down a bit, so, I couldn't let it alone. it has a 6" bbl. and the ser.# is S21 010x. I don't have any of my reference books with me and can't determin the dob of it, but maybe you guys can help. I don't have pictures yet, but will post them when I get them.
Chubbo
 
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