why use Lee factory crimp lock die?

[hyena]

Dipping my toes in reloading after a 40 year hiatus. I dug out my old Rock Chucker press. I only reloaded 9mm when I was a young pup. Any way, I want to start with .38, then maybe add .45 ACP if I am enjoying reloading. I bought a 3 die set of Lee carbide dies locally, then later ordered the factory crimp die. It is due to arrive tomorrow, but I loaded my first 100 today..

I'm loading SMS red coated 158gr RNFP, with 4.5 grains of Unique. A friend who has been loading well over 50 years came over to assist. No questions about depriming, sizing, flaring, powder charge, etc. It was all straight forward. The directions on the crimp and seat die were a little murky, so here's how I set it up. I first got only the bullet seating depth right, to have one completed cartridge of the desired length. Then I backed out the knob for the bullet seat depth and adjusted the die down until I got the desired amount of crimp. Then put in my one completed cartridge and slowly lowered the bullet seating knob until it touched the bullet. So then ran off about 100 cartridges, with that one die both seating the bullets and roll crimping the case.

So why should I do that using two separate dies? I wouldn't care if I had a progressive press, but man, I had forgotten how many time you have to crank that handle to churn out 100 cartridges. I haven't been able to find a clear explanation of the advantage of using two dies to do what I did with one.

Also...on some of the completed reloads, it appeared there was a shaving of brass right where the bullet seated. By shaving, I mean it looked like a single yellow hair. So fine it just pulled or wiped right off. My friend said he had never experienced that. I wondered if I had flared the brass just a hair too much, but I thought I was careful to only flare each one enough to allow the bullet to sit on it steadily going into the seat/crimp die.

I had one failure, that might be due to using a single die to seat and crimp. I had one case slightly crunch up right below the bullet. Nothing dramatic, just enough it didn't want to drop in the chamber of my revolver, so I pulled the bullet, saved the powder, and threw away the brass.

I appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

 

[Wise_A]

The only reason to seat+crimp in one die on a turret or progressive is if you need the station for something else.

The only reason to seat+crimp in two dies on a single-stage is if you hate having free time and need the exercise.

It's like you're asking, "Why would anyone use a bench-mounted powder dispenser with a progressive press?". That's just not what the equipment is designed for.

 

[MyDads38]

For revolver rounds like 38 Special, I seat and crimp with one die (same 3 die set you have). Now on semi auto cartridges, I use 4 die sets to seat and crimp separately. But I have turret presses and progressives for my pistol loads. I still use a single stage for my rifle ammo.

 

[msauter]

I use the four die sets on everything ... avoids all the problems detailed in the original post (shaved brass, crunched cases, finished rounds not chambering). I feel that I save time in set-up as it is much easier to adjust the seating die without having to set crimp, and I also save time by not worrying about mixed headstamps and varying case lengths (within reason). I load on a single stage, and find the final crimping operation with the FCD goes very fast, probably less than three minutes for a 50 round batch.

 

[Collo Rosso]

You mentioned roll crimping. For 9mm para I hope your taper crimping!
I've come to seat, then crimp separately. If you think about it your still pushing the bullet down as the die starts to crimp. I had some shaving using plated bullets and even more using coated. Splitting seat/crimp stopped that. Plus I got more consistent O.A.L.
The Lee FCD is another thing in itself. I've never seen the need for it. For semi-auto rounds I set my taper crimp die to just take out the bell and return it to a straight wall case. Doing that I've never had problems passing my rounds through a case gauge. I think if you need a full length crimp die, you have a problem somewhere else.

 

[Bakebfr480]

I only use the factory crimp die with the 38 wcf.......the rounds won't chamber in my various revolvers and rifles if I don't!

 

[Marshal Kane]

That fine yellow hairlike shaving off your brass won't come back the next time you reload the case. It's the remnants of brass on the case mouth left when the case was trimmed and chamfered. Your crimp die will remove it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

IF.........
all your cases are the same oal.........
and the "Can" on the bullets are all in the same spot.....

Seating and crimping a load will work every time if the dies are
set up correctly for that bullet.

I don't trim pistol cases, and have had cannelures off a little, so
I usually seat the bullets first and fine tune if needed then crimp,
even though they will not all come out the same but good enough for plinking.
I just don't over do the crimp on jacket bullets, where lead can
take a heavy crimp w/o any problems.

Nothing wrong with removing the sharp inside edge of a NEW case.
if you feel the need to do so, but only one time.

Good shooting.

 

[rockquarry]

What works for one may not work for someone else. As a one-time experiment that will tell you all you need to know about the mentioned procedures for your situation, try these:

Seat and crimp in two steps, then seat and crimp in one step.

Doing everything right, crimp however you choose without using the Lee factory crimp die. Then use the die according to directions on another batch of ammo.

Whatever crimp you use, crimp only enough to prevent bullet movement in the case, no more. It's at this point where some tend to overdo a crimp. This can ruin accuracy. There is no standard definition for degree of crimp; part of the problem.

Load 10-20 round test batches of each variation and shoot from a sturdy benchrest using sandbags and /or handgun rest at 25 yards. Use good uniform benchrest technique and your questions will be answered to your satisfaction.

 

[bigggbbruce]

I use a crimp only die when loading lead or hitek coated. Seating and crimp/deflare in one shaves lead and can have chambering problems.

As soon as I finish up the last of those bullets I'll stay with copper coated. Price savings not worth the issues.

 

[mtgianni]

I like Lee's factory crimp die for bottle necked cartridges but find the carbide ring can reduce the size of lead bullets. I won't use one for my handgun cartridges.

 

[gwpercle]

Dipping my toes in reloading after a 40 year hiatus. I dug out my old Rock Chucker press. I only reloaded 9mm when I was a young pup. Any way, I want to start with .38, then maybe add .45 ACP if I am enjoying reloading. I bought a 3 die set of Lee carbide dies locally, then later ordered the factory crimp die. It is due to arrive tomorrow, but I loaded my first 100 today..

I'm loading SMS red coated 158gr RNFP, with 4.5 grains of Unique. A friend who has been loading well over 50 years came over to assist. No questions about depriming, sizing, flaring, powder charge, etc. It was all straight forward. The directions on the crimp and seat die were a little murky, so here's how I set it up. I first got only the bullet seating depth right, to have one completed cartridge of the desired length. Then I backed out the knob for the bullet seat depth and adjusted the die down until I got the desired amount of crimp. Then put in my one completed cartridge and slowly lowered the bullet seating knob until it touched the bullet. So then ran off about 100 cartridges, with that one die both seating the bullets and roll crimping the case.

So why should I do that using two separate dies? I wouldn't care if I had a progressive press, but man, I had forgotten how many time you have to crank that handle to churn out 100 cartridges. I haven't been able to find a clear explanation of the advantage of using two dies to do what I did with one.

Also...on some of the completed reloads, it appeared there was a shaving of brass right where the bullet seated. By shaving, I mean it looked like a single yellow hair. So fine it just pulled or wiped right off. My friend said he had never experienced that. I wondered if I had flared the brass just a hair too much, but I thought I was careful to only flare each one enough to allow the bullet to sit on it steadily going into the seat/crimp die.

I had one failure, that might be due to using a single die to seat and crimp. I had one case slightly crunch up right below the bullet. Nothing dramatic, just enough it didn't want to drop in the chamber of my revolver, so I pulled the bullet, saved the powder, and threw away the brass.

I appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

The factory crimp die is useful for people who haven't got the hang of adjusting the standard seating and crimping die that comes with every set.
You can do it and I can do it... so we don't really need the Lee factory crimp die . To eliminate that pesky shaved ring of lead I seat in one step and crimp in another. Just use the Lee factory crimp die after seating withe the regular die...it's a pain but two steps is a sure way to eliminate ring around the lead bullet. I use one die and readjust it for each step.
Seating and Taper crimping, in one step, usually doesn't shave .

Some will say to heavily chamfer the case mouth to eliminate any lead rings shaving off but my thought is this weakens the mouth and will lead to premature splitting.
Gary

 

[mikld]

You got lucky with the seat/crimp adjustment (but there was some shaving, bullet?). Most reloaders have a bit of trouble coordinating the bullet movement and the crimping and often get case bulges or bullet shaving. I have more control of both steps when I seat and crimp separately, and I've been doing it that way for over 30 years. And especially now, with my Co-Ax it's no big deal. Prior to my Co-Ax I used a turret (20+ years) and again, no big deal. I do not reload if I'm in a hurry so an extra few pulls of the handle mean very little to me...

 

[Tex1001]

I altered a Lee 357 mag collet crimp die to 38 spec and I get perfect crimps however I choose.
Nice roll type crimp for lead and jacketed with a crimp groove.
A nice rollover crimp with wadcutters.
A crimp that just kisses the bullet with plated bullets.

 

[SMSgt]

I've never seated and crimped in separate actions. The extra time spent properly setting up the seat/crimp die has been worth avoiding extra cycles of the press.

I've found chamfering the case mouth reduces/eliminates any shaving of lead. It takes very little effort to remove only the sharp edge of the mouth. A couple light twists and done.

Also, setting the absolute minimum crimp also prevents shaving. You're not really "crimping" so much as removing the flare.

 

[hyena]

Thank you all for sharing your experience.

 

[petemacmahon]

For most of my reloading/handloading, especially on Dillon's 550 RLB, I use the combo seat/crimp dies just fine for all my handgun stuff, which is only revolvers. The only non rimfire auto I own is a 9mm and I don't bother for that as factory stuff is just as cheap in bulk.

For my hot loaded hunting ammo in 41 mag & 44 mag, (mostly using H110) I use a single stage press and I simply love the crimp I get from the Lee Factory Crimp die! Since my hunting ammo is always small batch, I don't mind the extra run through for the separate crimping. The heavy crimp ensures no bullet pull and I believe it helps with fuller combustion of the slow burning powders.

I also use the Lee Factory Crimp die for all my 45-70 hunting ammo loading, and I've also used it with success on my 358 Win loading. I don't, however, feel the need to use it on all bottleneck rifle cartridges.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I use a FCD, and carry handloads just for the entertainment.

 

[fredj338]

I have no use for the lfcd, a poor fix for poor technique imo. I prefer seat & crimp in separate steps with lead or coated lead, but jacketed go just fine seating & crimping in one. If you want to seat & crimp separately, you only need another seating die or specialty crimp die like the Redding profile.

 

[fredj338]

I like Lee's factory crimp die for bottle necked cartridges but find the carbide ring can reduce the size of lead bullets. I won't use one for my handgun cartridges.

Yes two totally diff crimp dies.