Will you collect collet the Guns from the public?

[truckermike]

Erkell wont order the military or the civilian police forces to take your guns. The U.N. troops he invites in will be more than happy to do it. And every night I'll go blue helmet hunting.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

1.They will only come for "illegal" guns.
2.They had a undercover gun buy program in NYC, IIRC it was suspended when a couple of cops were blasted.
3.Theoretically there is in the military a doctrine of "illegal orders/unlawful orders" although those of us who have served over the last 40 or so years know that is a very vague and amorphous concept meant to take the heat off the higher ups.
4. It is the Spirit of 1775-of Lexington and Concord abd Bunker Hill that we must revive.

 

[oldRoger]

I understand that in New York City, when you die the city comes for your registered firearms. I believe this to be the case elsewhere as well. Perfectly legal, few are disturbed.
So how did New Yorkers, not the most docile of men, come to this point?
As Bob says it has to be done incrementally.
The first step is to establish “reasonable” gun restrictions. Of course “reasonable” is a term of political art. As Bill Clinton used to say it depends upon what is, is. As time passes reasonable becomes less and less reasonable. In time we arrive at the zero tolerance or Chicago state of affairs.

We see quite a few British Snow birds here. We took one shooting last week. He owns a farm, has a shotgun which he uses for Rabbits. I suggested something like a 10/22 would be better. He said there is no chance.
It has taken them about 50 years to get into a situation where they are not allowed to defend themselves..

If the folks in New Orleans had been really, really, lucky and the first LEOs when asked to confiscate legal guns had refused, nothing more would probably have been said or done.
I do not expect a knock on the door tonight. I do expect continuous pressure.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by truckermike:
Erkell wont order the military or the civilian police forces to take your guns. The U.N. troops he invites in will be more than happy to do it. And every night I'll go blue helmet hunting.

Eh. Folks have been talking about the Blue Helmet bugaboo since Clinton was in office. Given the effectiveness of most U.N. peace keeping efforst, I'm not sure why someone would bother. A bunch of Swedes and Nigerians would be more likely to spur resistance than anything else.

Now if you want a good conspiracy, there is an agreement in effect where Canadian troops can come "help out" in case of an emergency.

 

[Herknav]

Originally posted by MrJT:
You say you took the oath in '61 and haven't forgotten it, but you left out..

"and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

Interestingly enough, this statement is NOT in the oath for AF officers.

However, your point about the appearance of legality is well-taken.

 

[walnutred]

There was a video floating around the web last year of a fireman in Kansas trying to confiscate firearms after the flooding. He almost got shot in the process but they will find someone willing to do it.

 

[bmhiii]

Originally posted by straightshooter1:
What those who are hoping the troops and police will consider an unlawful order and disobey are missing the real point.

No one will just get up one morning and issue an order to the military and/or the police to go pick up all civilian weapons.

Incrementally, things will happen to chip away at the right to bear arms (assault weapons ban, one gun per month, registration, etc.) and then, Congress will pass a law, and the Courts will uphold it saying, in effect, turn in the guns.

Then, when the order to go out and confiscate comes, it WON'T be an illegal or unlawful order, rather it will be very lawful, upheld by the Courts and those that don't comply will be the lawbreakers.

Soldiers and Police Officers who refuse (if any) will be subject to sanctions themselves for violating a lawful order.

This is why it is so important to elect those who won't agree to any laws that restrict our rights and to fight any encroachment by those who would.

Bob

Bob got it right.

 

[feralmerril]

I would like to think our police and military wouldnt, but I think that is only wishfull thinking. Every country that lost their guns like germany etc didnt stop it. What makes us think our people are different? Everyone on these sites are gun lovers to start with, and somehow it seems gun nuts are far more conservative and patriotic then the average. It just goes hand in hand. However we are outnumbered by those that arent. I would like to know the real percentages of the military and LEO on the subject. Remember most of them are younger then us old farts and dont have our seasoned views. Most of the fine art of exspendsive guns in the world were made in germany and look what happened there. I suppose some fine old drillings etc are still buried, but their youth were trained as brown shirts etc, and all it took was a half dozzen years or less to indoctrian the youth to where hitler was worshiped by the youth where the older krauts couldnt do anything. (I can say that because all my ancesters came from there.) Our schools have been dumbed down starting in the early 60s and have a head start!

 

[tiger27]

If and when such a solumn day should arrive I fear that, personally, I would not see the day after, nor would I want to.

 

[RobO]

This topic is in the forefront of my mind, almost on a daily basis lately; seeing where our country seems to be heading.

Not comparing any individuals, but one can learn about Germany in the 1930's to know what we must not let happen. Domestic laws were created, and the domestic police where the first to act on these.

Lots of young people becoming cops who have not been properly educated as to the history of our nation. I see this as part of the problem. We need to keep the Constitution alive, and awareness of it by our youth is key. Also, I have started reading "The 5000 year leap", which I have heard is a great book for those who hold liberty near and dear.

My oath was to the U.S. and N.Y. state constitution. If I were to cause harm to someone's inalienable rights, what kind of justice am I serving? I'm a man, a christian, and an American. I do police work as a job. I was not born a cop, I merely serve as a duty to society. See the difference? You can bet I do. My principles shall dictate my behavior in the future.

 

[walnutred]

One thing that is often overlooked about WW2 Germany is that approximately 1/3rd of the concentration camps were run by the police. When the war ended, those guys simply went back to their police station and picked up where they left off. Some of you might find that book I mentioned earlier enlightening. The psychological transformation that allows someone to go from an average working stiff, to be willing to help shoot a few hundred unarmed civilians a night, and back to working stiff.

 

[Noah Zark]

Originally posted by USAF385:
Hypotheticals are fun, but when you're faced with the actual order, things are different.

Especially when your family members are hauled away to ensure your compliance.

Noah

 

[george minze]

Our youth know nothing about what happened in Germany during the 30s. They barely know anything but from the movies about the great world war 2 much less WW1. they know nothing about Korea, Nam or for that matter the first Gulf war. As long as they believe they will get Utopia without working for it they will follow like the Germans did in the 30s and the first years of the war. Your guns will go it has to happen for his view of the world as the Messiah sees it. Every dictator has known that you must unarm the populace. How it's done is not important. It will just happen. Watch the Supreme Court, watch the Obama nominees that are coming. Think about this.....Would you have believed that the auto companies would be run be the government????? The whole thing is UNBELIEVABLE.....

 

[S/W - Lifer]

It took over 200 years to provide arms to a population of more than 300 million people. Civil disarming will not take place overnight.

Expect a plan which establishes a voluntary turn-in process over a specified period of time. The carrot could be substantial tax credit. The stick will come later for those who haven't seen the light. The process will be applied over time - time to consider and think things over, time to come to grips with reality and time to come to the right decision.

The penalties can be expected to be very costly in a variety of ways. The carrot will be reasonable; the stick substantial. Some examples will be made and the media will carry those stories. Die hard resistors will be quietly dealt with. In the end, most people will voluntarily comply and choose payment over penalty.

 

[RobO]

In the end, most people will voluntarily comply and choose payment over penalty.

My, how shortsighted of them...

 

[CelticSire]

Originally posted by MrJT:

Originally posted by PALADIN85020:
I took that oath in September, 1961 when I became an officer in the Army, and I have never forgotten it. Unlike some current politicians.

You say you took the oath in '61 and haven't forgotten it, but you left out..

"and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

No, he didn't. That is not part of the Oath for Commissioned Officers, only for Enlisted members. "One notable difference between the officer and enlisted oaths is that the oath taken by officers does not include any provision to obey orders; while enlisted personnel are bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice to obey lawful orders, officers in the service of the United States are bound by this oath to disobey any order that violates the Constitution of the United States."

 

[red14]

Robo,

very poignant picture, I looked at the entire thing. I kept coming back to the feet. I wonder how those poor souls viewed change?

We are treading dangerous waters!

 

[lagavulin62]

Originally posted by S/W - Lifer:
Expect a plan which establishes a voluntary turn-in process over a specified period of time. The carrot could be substantial tax credit. The stick will come later for those who haven't seen the light. The process will be applied over time - time to consider and think things over, time to come to grips with reality and time to come to the right decision.

The penalties can be expected to be very costly in a variety of ways. The carrot will be reasonable; the stick substantial. Some examples will be made and the media will carry those stories. Die hard resistors will be quietly dealt with. In the end, most people will voluntarily comply and choose payment over penalty.

I was thinking about this driving back this afternoon. most people will reason they may as well take the cash if there gonna lose the gun anyway. what people will do for such a small payoff. when only the diehards are left they can get tough with them and nobody would care, the populace would brand the diehards as radicals who get what they deserve. I think the key to it all is what one poster above was saying.... we need to make decisions based on our character and what we believe is right and supported by the constitution. any laws this country makes against a basic interpretation of the constitution is wrong and citizens can't be expected to accept them. the only response is resistance. nobody knows what they will do until the time comes. I can't imagine what life would be like without freedoms. this is a good thread but very depressing.

 

[RobO]

Originally posted by red14:
Robo,

very poignant picture, I looked at the entire thing. I kept coming back to the feet. I wonder how those poor souls viewed change?

We are treading dangerous waters!

I looked through many photos before choosing that one. You can look into each man's eyes, and see their souls yearning to be free. Oh, what they wouldn't give to go back to a point where they could have chosen resistance...

I just came back from a trip to Holland, and while I was there, I spent a day in Amsterdam. I toured the house of Ann Frank again, and after the renovations, the experience was outstanding. While walking to it, I passed a large (for the lack of a better term I'll call it a) tourist marker. It was a picture of German tanks rolling through the streets of Amsterdam, and scores of people came out of their house to gawk and watch, like it was some friggin parade. I do not mean to disrespect the Dutch, but I could NEVER imagine myself acting like that. No, one man can not stop an army, but I'll be damned if I ever roll over and let my liberty be taken away.

 

[msgdan]

Guess I'm not a good soldier because I wouldn't do it. Some of my peers feel the same way, but the rest, I can't speak for them..........