Winchester 1890 Solid frame HELP

[ohionick]

Hey fellas,

I own a rifle manufacturing company in Ohio and had a Winchester 1890 Solid frame walk in my retail store a little while back. The gun is not in great shape but is complete and does function as it should. My problem is the barrel in pitted where the caliber would be marked and I cannot be certain to what caliber it is. It is a 4 digit serial number that dates it to 1891 ( first edition ) caliber either has to be a .22 short, .22L or .22WRF I can chamber a .22LR ( which leads me to thank .22 short is out? ) and I have shot .22L CB Match thru it, I do not own any .22WRF but by the opening in the tube I can tell a .22 mag is much to large to load. So my question is, would the tube opening be larger for the .22WRF? or is there another way to tell the caliber?

Thanks and advance and any help or direction is greatly appreciated!!

 

[wetdog]

.22 WRF is longer than .22lr and shorter than .22 MRF. Try chambering and see what fits.

 

[ohionick]

.22 WRF is longer than .22lr and shorter than .22 MRF. Try chambering and see what fits.

I think I got it figured out, The WRF is larger in diameter then the .22L so it would not fit in the tube. I believe I have a .22L which is the more rare of the calibers. Maybe someone here knows if my theory is true lol.

 

[LittleCooner]

Your answer lies in looking at the carrier and the size of the slot on the left side. If for a short, then the slot will be about 1/3 of the length in this area. The Long with be about 1/2 of the length and the WR carrier slot is about 3/4 of the total length. They only made around 16,000 of the solid frames, so it is a rare gun. Production started Dec 1890 and being transition to the take down model in Sept 1892. If this is not sufficent, I can post a photo of each of the carriers here, but the quality will be poor. I am using my copy of Ned Schwing's book on the Winchester Slide Action Rifles for reference and the photo on page 41 is not of great quality. The measurements from the carrier bushing hole up to the back of the seat is 2.213 for the short, 2.026 inches for the Long and 1.725 inches for the WR. The magazine tube opening will be a clue to possible WR chambering. The opening would be about 1 1/4 inches and the short and long opening would be about 7/8 inch and would be 8 inches from the receiver where the WR opening would be 11 1/4 inch from the receiver.

 

[wetdog]

I don't remember the exact difference but I think you are on the right track. Forgot to mention Welcome to the forum.

 

[LittleCooner]

Your answer lies in looking at the carrier and the size of the slot on the left side. If for a short, then the slot will be about 1/3 of the length in this area. The Long with be about 1/2 of the length and the WR carrier slot is about 3/4 of the total length. They only made around 16,000 of the solid frames, so it is a rare gun. Production started Dec 1890 and being transition to the take down model in Sept 1892. If this is not sufficent, I can post a photo of each of the carriers here, but the quality will be poor. I am using my copy of Ned Schwing's book on the Winchester Slide Action Rifles for reference and the photo on page 41 is not of great quality. The measurements from the carrier bushing hole up to the back of the seat is 2.213 for the short, 2.026 inches for the Long and 1.725 inches for the WR. The magazine tube opening will be a clue to possible WR chambering. The opening would be about 1 1/4 inches and the short and long opening would be about 7/8 inch and would be 8 inches from the receiver where the WR opening would be 11 1/4 inch from the receiver.

 

[Buford57]

I think I got it figured out, The WRF is larger in diameter then the .22L so it would not fit in the tube. I believe I have a .22L which is the more rare of the calibers. Maybe someone here knows if my theory is true lol.

The length is the difference between .22 WMR and .22 WRF (aka .22 Remington Special). Both are larger in diameter than .22 S/L/LR.

 

[ohionick]

Your answer lies in looking at the carrier and the size of the slot on the left side. If for a short, then the slot will be about 1/3 of the length in this area. The Long with be about 1/2 of the length and the WR carrier slot is about 3/4 of the total length. They only made around 16,000 of the solid frames, so it is a rare gun. Production started Dec 1890 and being transition to the take down model in Sept 1892. If this is not sufficent, I can post a photo of each of the carriers here, but the quality will be poor. I am using my copy of Ned Schwing's book on the Winchester Slide Action Rifles for reference and the photo on page 41 is not of great quality. The measurements from the carrier bushing hole up to the back of the seat is 2.213 for the short, 2.026 inches for the Long and 1.725 inches for the WR. The magazine tube opening will be a clue to possible WR chambering. The opening would be about 1 1/4 inches and the short and long opening would be about 7/8 inch and would be 8 inches from the receiver where the WR opening would be 11 1/4 inch from the receiver.

Thanks for the info! The bottom of the tube slot ( rim of ammo ) is 9 inches from the rec. I know the WR ammo and the Mag ammo are the same diameter at the neck and the mag info will not feed in this tube. Also the slot opening is right at 1 inch. Am i right to believe this is a .22 Long?

 

[ohionick]

I don't remember the exact difference but I think you are on the right track. Forgot to mention WelcomThanks Brother!!

 

[Drm50]

My uncle has a solid frame 1890 in 22long. Lucky he was a hoarder. He lives a few miles from the old Buckeye Sports in
Canton, Ohio. The owner was a personal friend of his and every
time he stopped to BS, he got a brick of longs. He visits us kin
in the sticks every summer and expends a whole box of 50 rds.
Well big John at Buckeye is gone, Buckeye is gone, but I figure
unc is good for another 50yrs at his rate of fire. Gun was bought
new by his grandfather. Judging from condition of gun the whole
family were tighter that the bark on a pignut, gun looks new.

 

[ohionick]

My uncle has a solid frame 1890 in 22long. Lucky he was a hoarder. He lives a few miles from the old Buckeye Sports in
Canton, Ohio. The owner was a personal friend of his and every
time he stopped to BS, he got a brick of longs. He visits us kin
in the sticks every summer and expends a whole box of 50 rds.
Well big John at Buckeye is gone, Buckeye is gone, but I figure
unc is good for another 50yrs at his rate of fire. Gun was bought
new by his grandfather. Judging from condition of gun the whole
family were tighter that the bark on a pignut, gun looks new.

I have been looking at these guns and the more I look the more I want to refinish one! ( would be the less desirable later model take down ) They are just awesome guns! Wish this one could tell stories! as im sure you wish the same about your uncles

 

[ohionick]

I Just found a box of .22L CB that I purchased a while back and the rifle is def a .22L caliber. Round loads and sits perfectly in the carrier! Thanks for all your help fellas!From my research there is only 1 that i have found online for sale, although nicer then mine they are asking $10K for it. Many later model 1890 take downs are available but not solid frame .22L

Maybe I found a gem...

 

[LittleCooner]

Hey, if they made on about 16,000 in the first year of the 1890's, you can bet there are not a lot of them still around.

I have a takedown that is refinished and i love to shoot it. 22 short. two decades ago, when life was different, I found this guy's gun shop in Australia, many guns on line and most were really tough. Actually called him one morning and he was still at the shop very late "down there". Two boxes of "gun parts" later, I had a 1903 model 90. Total refinish and lined the barrel (o, it looked rougher than the outside). It would be tough to find one today to refinish because all that I find for sale are many hundreds of dollars, no matter the condition. And I have never held a solid frame gun in my hand. yep, you have a jewel. Long ammo is just going to be hard to find.