Winchester 231 and 38 special

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JamesWP

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I'm looking to make some light, plinking loads. Bullet is a swaged Hornady 158gr lead roundnose. Winchester small rifle primer. I've got several powder options, but I'm wanting to use Win 231 as I'm saving my other powders for other calibers.

This is my first experience with 231, and I'm a bit confused. I've looked at 3 different references and they all vary greatly. One shows a starting load of 4.2 grains, and one shows a starting load of 3.1 gr. I don't understand the extreme variation I'm seeing. This is new powder, if that makes a difference.

What say you guys? Gun is a nice old Colt Official Police, I just want to shoot light plinking loads in it, I like treating her gently.

Thanks!
 
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. Any trouble with 231 metering correctly in a RCBS uniflow powder measure? As I said, it's my first rodeo with this powder, I generally stick to unique and 2400 for my revolvers.
 
Lyman 49 shows a staring load of 3.6, but I'm not sure how different the profiles are. I'd start there, especially with the rifle primers. My notes show that I loaded 158 grain swc with 3.8 and 3.9 grains of HP38, but that was back before I had a chronograph.
Good luck,
David
 
4.2 gr is pretty stout for a starting load with a 158 gr bullet. Are you sure of it? I shoot 4.0 gr of 231 with a 158 gr cast bullet. It works great. Some sources have shown 4.0 gr to be over-max, but I'm a skeptical of that. Many people have shot 4.0 gr of 231 with the 158 for years.

Your Hornady bullet being a swaged bullet calls for lighter charges than cast bullets. I'd disregard the 4.1 gr starting load and go with your lower one. 231 meters perfectly. It's great in the 38 Special. You'd be had pressed to pick a better powder (other than its clone, HP38)
 
JamesWP said:
I'm looking to make some light, plinking loads. Bullet is a swaged Hornady 158gr lead roundnose. Winchester small rifle primer.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

The only potential problem in using the SR primer in .38 Special cases is primer sensitivity. If you have not already been using them in your Colt, you might want to load 10 cases with them, then fire them. If all ten pop, you are good to go. The Colt OP is a stout revolver, fully capable of handling any .38 Special loads (even .38-44s) without damage.
 
Some noticeable published discrepancies in load data with 231/HP-38, but I've used 4 grs. with a 160 grain cast SWC (Hensley & Gibbs #51) without problem and it seems to be a very safe standard pressure load with a muzzle velocity of just over 800 fps from a 4" barrel. Accuracy is very good.
 
I have chronographed a variety of .38 spl loads with 231 powder. Manuals are all over the place when it comes to recommended charges of 231 for too many reasons to go into here. 4.0 grs is a mild load that will chronograph at 800 FPS out of a 4" barrel with a cast SWC. Less is sometimes recommended with swaged bullets only because of leading. 3.1 grs with a 158 gr bullet is way too light for clean burning with 231. 3.8 grs will give you a mild load of about 770 FPS with your swaged bullet and surely would seem to be light enough in your Colt.
 
As you see there are quite a few loaders who use 4.0gr W231 under a 158gr cast bullet. I use a CCI-500 SPP. That is my favorite 158gr cast bullet load in the .38 Special. It shots well in every .38/.357 gun I own.

I use a Lyman #55 powder measure and a Lee Pro Auto-Disk and both will meter W231 very well. Also like said above, W231=HP-38.
 
Chubbs103 said:
Winchester/Hodgdon on-line reloading center says start with 3.1 and a max of 3.7.

Reloading Data Center | Hodgdon

My Winchester Load book (circa 1978) shows a bit higher.
Click to expand...

Winchester actually developed load data for 231, Hodgdon did not. They now own the marketing rights for Winchester powders. Their load data is a mix of data copied from other manuals and may be for swaged bullets from Speer or Cowboy action data or who knows what. Their data is the worst available. Realize that when you go online for Winchester data that you are getting Hodgdon's mess and not real Winchester data.
 
When Winchester published loading manuals their load for 231 and 158 grain lead bullets 4.5 grains to replicate a standard .38 special load. 4.7 grains was listed as a +P load.
 
38 Special
Hornady bullet - 158 gr. LRN
Hornady Reloading Manual 8th edition :
W231 powder:
starting load - 3.2 grs. @ 650 fps
3.5 grs @ 700 fps.
3.8 grs. @ 750 fps.
4.1 grs. @ 800 fps.
Maximum Load - 4.4 grs. @ 850 fps.

Your idea for a light load , 3.1 or 3.2 or 3.3 grains of W231 should be just fine . I would test all three for accuracy !

The above data is for modern 38 specials , for the older revolvers like the Colt Police Positive Special , I have one also ,
I would call 3.8 to 4.0 grs as maximum ... the gun is old and the frame rather small in size .
Good luck,
Gary
 
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JamesWP said:
I'm looking to make some light, plinking loads. Bullet is a swaged Hornady 158gr lead roundnose. Winchester small rifle primer. I've got several powder options, but I'm wanting to use Win 231 as I'm saving my other powders for other calibers.

This is my first experience with 231, and I'm a bit confused. I've looked at 3 different references and they all vary greatly. One shows a starting load of 4.2 grains, and one shows a starting load of 3.1 gr. I don't understand the extreme variation I'm seeing. This is new powder, if that makes a difference.

What say you guys? Gun is a nice old Colt Official Police, I just want to shoot light plinking loads in it, I like treating her gently.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm all in favor of treating firearms gently and would never tell someone how they "should" do it. However; as you are surely aware the Colt Official Police is one well-built revolver. Unless it is a very, very early production or has some specific issues one generally does not need fear .38 Special loads near, or at, +P levels especially if one isn't feeding a steady diet of them on a regular basis.

I seem to remember that Colt advertised their OP as capable of handling the Heavy Duty ammunition intended for the .38/44 HD Smith & Wesson revolver. I own several OP revolvers and, like you, I don't hot-rod them but apparently they can take it. I do "occasionally" launch some "warmer" loads from them without ill effect.

Point is; it does not concern me much if I'm on the warmer side of mild insofar as wear & tear on a Colt OP.
 
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I have used the Hodgdon data extensively and I respectfully disagree about it being a mess and used unknown bullets. All the data I have seen there clearly states what bullet is used. Perhaps I have missed something but then again maybe not'
The most important thing about any data is to remember it is a guide only. Each firearm is a rule unto itself. Proceed accordingly.
 
If you are really looking for light powder puff loads Trail Boss would be just the ticket . I realize you said " W231 " was the powder you wanted to try . Just keep the trail boss thing in mind . It is excellent for " light , plinking target loads " .
As far as " babying " the Colt OP , it's not necessary . It's ok to do that but definitely not necessary . Colt was heat treating the frames , cylinders etc long before S&W . Lots of rapid double action is what can take it out of time . Good luck , regards Paul
 
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I've been loading 231 in every non-magnum handgun caliber I have ever loaded for. The RCBS Uniflow measure will drop literally exact duplicate loads of 231 if you keep the hopper at least 1/4 full. If the hopper gets too low the loads may lighten up a 1/10th or so.

It may not be the cleanest powder, but it is one of the most accurate powders across multiple calibers.
 
I like 231 for most handgun cartridges and could probably get by fine with no other powder, but for pure accuracy, I get slightly better results with Bullseye in the 9mm, .38 Special, .44 Special, and .45 ACP/ Auto Rim. I use only cast bullets in handgun cartridges; whether or not the results would be the same with jacketed bullets, I don't know.
 
W231 is a powder that I don't use a lot of but I have jused in in my 2" J frame and several 6" 357 magnums.

With a lead 158 gr RN bullet my best accuracy came with a minimum of 3.5 grs of powder.
The 4.0 gr load in my J frame felt like a standard full load for the 38 special case.
Lyman has 4.0 grs listed ay 15,800 CUP. and is well below my full amount of powder that I use for a +P loading.

Have fun.
 
W231 is like Unique , you can find a load for dang near anything . Also like Unique below it's preferred pressure range it is dirty , in it's range it cleans up . It does leave a somewhat gritty carbon . IMHO it's hard to beat in 38 special with lead bullets . 3.1grs with a 148 HBWC is classic like 2.7grs Bullseye . With a 158 - 160gr 4.0 - 4.5grs , swaged stay lighter end , cast you gotta push a bit harder . I've shot tons of cast 158 - 160 loads with both 4.5grs W231 & Unique both are accurate in my guns .
 
I'd go on the light end. I'm another 4.0 guy but with swaged lead I'd go as low as accuracy would allow to avoid leading. Or you may find yourself adjusting the load to point of aim. If the 3.X prints high on the target increase the powder charge until it gets where you want it.
 
231 is great powder in this cartridge and it meters very well. W231 is the first powder I bought when I first bought a reloading press. I still have some in the old jerry can style bottles.
 
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I think everyone covered it quite well above. All that is left is to give personal examples which, as you and others should always know, are subject to your own verification.

I love W231/HP38 for 38 special. It is flat accurate, meters well, mild shooting, fairly clean and did I mention very accurate.

I roll my own 158 Gr. SWC bullets and have excellent accuracy in my primary test firearm, 4" 28-2, with loads of 3.5 to 3.8. From my last bunch of loading once i these shot up at 3.8 I will load everything at 3.5. Never saw the need to use more powder when I can achieve what I am after - ACCURACY! Good luck
 
Over the past thirty something years I have loaded quite a variety of .38 spl lead bullet handloads to different velocity levels and with a lot of different powders. I have chronographed them all since I got my first chronograph way back around the early 80s. I cannot understand the trepidation that makes some handloaders insist on loading squib loads for solid, strong medium frame revolvers. I've tried them. 650 FPS squibs are poor loads that are inconsistent, dirty from poor burning of powder at the very low pressure levels, have high ES and yield poor accuracy. Loading to a velocity of a bit below factory level, 750-780 FPS or so creates far better loads and are not going to harm your revolvers people.
 
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