Winchester Black Talon Question

aterry33

aterry33

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Got some Winchester Ranger stuff today, 40S&W, which according to an FBI agent I talked to, is basically the old Black Talon load minus the black phosphate coating on the bullet.

I used to remember the story behind the Black Talon stuff. Can someone refresh my memory as to what the whole controversy was about? Is it fair to refer to this new Ranger stuff as basically black Talon minus the coating?
 
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As I recall it, back around 1993 or so, when gun control was all the rage and the Clinton Administration was pushing the idiotic "assault weapons" ban, then-Congressmen Charles Schumer (D-NY) led the charge to ban Winchester Black Talon.

The issue, I think, was the advertising and the name. I remember the lurid complaints and the histrionics over Black Talon, and the anti-gun nuts got all torqued-up over it. I think Winchester withdrew it from the market voluntarily.

As I understand it, the Ranger ammo is indeed basically Black Talon with a more PC name....
 
Agree with what the others have said but I would like to add that not all Ranger is like the old BT. Ranger is just a line of ammo (FMJ, bonded HP, etc.). Ranger Talon or Ranger T are the new version of the old BT
 
BLACK TALON

these are no better than any other hollow point, one of the officers on the dept. i retired from shot a guy twice in the chest cavity with black talon 9mm, neither bullet expanded,but the guy died anyway. every young officer wants what ever in new to the market,but from the many homicides and suicides i worked as an investigator and testing i did myself on different bullets it is my belief that there is no MAGIC bullet, as in hunting game it is in shot placement.
 
When "Black Talon" became politically incorrect (beam me up, Scotty....), they changed the name to SXT. The black finish to the bullet held on for a while until supplies dried up, then the bullet magically turned a copper color.

We were issued all of the above variations to feed our Glock 22's, so it was interesting (in a disgusted sort of way) to watch all the convolutions. As usual in such matters, much ado about nothing.

We did have some chances to shoot some feral hogs and a few other things.....they are effective loads.
 
Many here are not old enough to remember the original Black Talon bullets. I still own about 900 of them in different calibers and I carry them as a defensive load.

The original complaints against Black Talon ammo was made by the medical profession (historically anti gun). Emergency room doctors in trauma centers were saying that the bullets were expanding and turning as they went into a person. If they hit bone, the bullet fragmented and made locating all the parts of the bullet almost impossible to locate and remove. Secondary to this was they claimed the way the bullet expanded was causing major organ damage.

Then the anti gun group in Congress said they were receiving reports from police agencies across the US that the bullets were piercing their bullet proof vests. Of course, this was a lie but anything those in the Brady group says is taken as law with Congress.

I can say this with certainty. There are better bullets now than the Black Talon and there were better bullets back then as well. Nothing the bullet did was bad but the black coating caused a lot of false rumors.
 
IIRC, the original Talon loads were designed to penetrate super deep and the more modern renditions open more readily and are designed arond 12"-14"ish penetration.

My recollection is that ER physicians big (and very realistic I might add) concern was that the sharp talons would poke through their gloves.
 
Yes, the jacket was designed to peal back into razor sharp petals. This is bad for public image and I have heard that some medical staff in ERs complained that the sharp petals would cut through medical gloves. In reality there is nothing super special about this bullet that many other premium hollowpoints don't have, but the name and the overall image of the bullet was just too easy for liberals and anti-gun people to attack. My carry load is the modern 45 +P Ranger load and I think it is good stuff. Very hot and snappy in recoil but I have no doubt it would do the job if placed properly.
 
The black coating is molybdenum disulfide, a lubricant. Unfortunately it has a tendancy to plate out on the barrel and it's been reported to cause corrosion because it absorbs water.
 
I did buy a bunch of Black Talon just before they were taken off of the shelves. Sold it all in the last few years. Great ammo, but not any better than anything else you can buy nowdays.
Sonny
 
It's not the lead, it's the jacket. Razor sharp is a relative term when talking about copper, but I wouldn't want it going through me that's for sure.
 
Both of my range instructors in both of my academy classes held onto some black talons after the uproar but both also concluded that it is/was no better than the gold dot, which was available at that time, or the hydrashock. They also said the SXT was the Same eXact Thing and that they both carried gold dots in their issue weapons and off duty guns. Which was probably the biggest influence on me carrying them in my SD guns.
 
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