Windows 7 Repair?

[cmort666]

A friend just went through hell with the machine in his law office.

His hard drive started throwing SMART errors that it was about to die, so he bought a new one. I suggested that he do what I did recently in an IDENTICAL situation, and buy another hard drive and do a bit level copy of the old one to the new one, WITHOUT making any attempt to "fix" the old one. It took me a while to get mine straightened out, but using the dd command under Clonezilla, I was able to transition to a new drive without reinstalling anything.

Of course he somehow managed to get (I think) the Windows repair going on his OLD drive before doing the copy (he had to use dd too).

The system then endlessly rebooted with the new drive installed. Bootup repair didn't fix the issue.

In a Windows XP machine, the solution would have been to do a repair install from the Windows CD, reinstalling any drivers as required.

I was astonished to find out that [apparently] you can only do a Windows 7 repair install IF Windows 7 is WORKING on the machine you're trying to repair... rather like telling somebody that they can only rebuild the engine in their car IF it starts, AND it's RUNNING while they do it.

Needless to say, this is weapon's grade stupidity if true. Both of us tried to find a way around this nonsense, but could only find people looking for a solution, and morons telling them that the "solution" was to boot their non-booting machines and run the repair install that CAN'T be run because it won't boot from the hard drive.

Only Micro$oft would think that you would only want to do a repair install on a WORKING operating system, but NOT a BROKEN one.

My friend had to punt and do a clean install, since he couldn't have his law practice down for a week looking for a possibly nonexistent solution.

I called a friend who works for Micro$oft in Seattle, but he's out hunting elk and hasn't gotten back to me yet.

This ship has sailed, but does anyone know if there's a way around this issue, either by forcing some kind of repair install from the Windows 7 DVD or by some other means? I'd like to know this for future reference in case it happens again.

 

[ChuckS1]

I think the clean install was the correct answer. He did have his data backed up, right? I'm assuming he did, seeing as this was an office computer.

 

[kwselke]

If you have a Win-7 disk you should be able to boot from the DVD by adjusting the boot sequence in the BIOS. I set mine to check the DVD for a bootable disk before booting from C: when I was experimenting with Linux.

 

[yaktamer]

Windows 7, another Microsoft solution in search of a problem.

 

[cowart]

I was astonished to find out that [apparently] you can only do a Windows 7 repair install IF Windows 7 is WORKING on the machine you're trying to repair... rather like telling somebody that they can only rebuild the engine in their car IF it starts, AND it's RUNNING while they do it.

That is not actually completely true. There are workarounds available. How it is done depends on which flavor of Windows 7 disk you are trying to use (factory OEM vs store-bought). See
Repair Install - Windows 7 Help Forums

 

[cmort666]

If you have a Win-7 disk you should be able to boot from the DVD by adjusting the boot sequence in the BIOS. I set mine to check the DVD for a bootable disk before booting from C: when I was experimenting with Linux.

Oh, he can boot from the DVD all day long.

He just can't do a Windows XP style repair install from it.

You can ONLY (so far as I've seen) do a repair install from a WORKING Windows 7 installation booted from the HARD DRIVE.

As I said previously, that's like saying you can't rebuild the engine of your car unless it's running.

 

[cmort666]

That is not actually completely true. There are workarounds available. How it is done depends on which flavor of Windows 7 disk you are trying to use (factory OEM vs store-bought). See
Repair Install - Windows 7 Help Forums

We both read the instructions there, and practically speaking, what I said is true.

You CANNOT do an in-place upgrade from the DVD. It MUST be done from the hard drive. It wants you to do a "boot repair", but if that doesn't work, you CAN'T do an in-place upgrade. Your ONLY option is a fresh install. Other people in support forums have commented on the same thing.

What people want (and which apparently doesn't exist, at least to the not so caual observer) is a way to do an XP style in-place upgrade from the DVD, when the existing Windows 7 won't boot properly.

I suppose that it's not obvious unless you actually try it.

 

[cmort666]

I think the clean install was the correct answer. He did have his data backed up, right? I'm assuming he did, seeing as this was an office computer.

His data is (he thinks) backed up. At least he copied as much of it off as he could find, to another hard drive.

The real problem is the VERY time and labor intensive job of reinstalling ALL of his apps. That is a pain, and I've told him and another friend on multiple occasions that they need to do an image backup of their base systems with all of the software installed and properly configured in case of issues like this. Neither has. Fortunately, the other friend took my advice of having me building him a Linux server on which all of his data resides. He's trashed his workstation on several occasions, but never lost any consequential amount of data. Now he's thinking of ditching the server, since he has to move to a smaller office. Hopefull he'll give or sell it to the other friend as is, after removing his data.

 

[johngalt]

I've run into the same problem with win 7. I've used Ghost to copy my drive to an image on another disk. Too late for your friend, but Ghost is a very handy backup method.

 

[LVSteve]

VERY interesting. I have a Vista Home Premium machine that I think is entitled to a free upgrade to Win7 from King Bill. Looks like I should proceed with caution should I take up the offer. Mind you, Vista Home Premium has been largely abandoned by the market so i could find myself behind the eight ball either way.

 

[Smithsrevenge]

There are basically two ways to fix this issue before it fries everything.

Make a data backup with a full system image onto an external drive.

Then whilst the new harddrive is in the machine, boot through the external and use the system image to install windows from the external and restore all. Including the apps which will be saved to the system image on the external. Takes less than an hour to do the whole shebang.

#2

If he has lost the old drive, aka its dead.

He needs to do a full re-partition of the new drive to wipe it.

Then use a physical harddrive transformer to transfer the data from the old drive to a external.

Then he can restore to the new drive from the external once windows has been set up. Hard part is a good stand-alone transformer that doesnt require the HDD to be working to work, is in excess of $450.

If his harddrive still works, back it up, make a system image, and then load that all to the new HDD via a external drive and he will have all the exact same files and settings as on the previous HDD

Hope this helps, your local and friendly A+ tech and owner of Lapdropcomputers :-D

 

[peyton]

I maintain computers for the Army and the problems listed above are the reason I have been deployed for 10 years. As said above, back up data always!! I will go into an office and spend 20 minutes with a generic GHOST image and reload a computer. Whatever was on the C: drive is gone.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

A friend just went through hell with the machine in his law office.

His hard drive started throwing SMART errors that it was about to die, so he bought a new one. I suggested that he do what I did recently in an IDENTICAL situation, and buy another hard drive and do a bit level copy of the old one to the new one, WITHOUT making any attempt to "fix" the old one. It took me a while to get mine straightened out, but using the dd command under Clonezilla, I was able to transition to a new drive without reinstalling anything.

Of course he somehow managed to get (I think) the Windows repair going on his OLD drive before doing the copy (he had to use dd too).

The system then endlessly rebooted with the new drive installed. Bootup repair didn't fix the issue.

In a Windows XP machine, the solution would have been to do a repair install from the Windows CD, reinstalling any drivers as required.

I was astonished to find out that [apparently] you can only do a Windows 7 repair install IF Windows 7 is WORKING on the machine you're trying to repair... rather like telling somebody that they can only rebuild the engine in their car IF it starts, AND it's RUNNING while they do it.

Needless to say, this is weapon's grade stupidity if true. Both of us tried to find a way around this nonsense, but could only find people looking for a solution, and morons telling them that the "solution" was to boot their non-booting machines and run the repair install that CAN'T be run because it won't boot from the hard drive.

Only Micro$oft would think that you would only want to do a repair install on a WORKING operating system, but NOT a BROKEN one.

My friend had to punt and do a clean install, since he couldn't have his law practice down for a week looking for a possibly nonexistent solution.

I called a friend who works for Micro$oft in Seattle, but he's out hunting elk and hasn't gotten back to me yet.

This ship has sailed, but does anyone know if there's a way around this issue, either by forcing some kind of repair install from the Windows 7 DVD or by some other means? I'd like to know this for future reference in case it happens again.

I don't understand a %^&^$% thing you just said

 

[arjay]

I finally gave up and bought an ipad.Simple is good.

 

[gdauth]

I spent years being screwed by Windoz, about 6 years ago I finally got fed up and bought an Apple laptop. I have been a happy camper ever since. That laptop is still working. During that time it never crashed once! The system automatically created incremental backups on in expensive USB disk drives. The system ran 24/7 for 6 years until I got a new iMac desktop.

 

[cmort666]

VERY interesting. I have a Vista Home Premium machine that I think is entitled to a free upgrade to Win7 from King Bill. Looks like I should proceed with caution should I take up the offer. Mind you, Vista Home Premium has been largely abandoned by the market so i could find myself behind the eight ball either way.

I'd upgrade just because Windows 7 is so much less annoying than Vista.

At the same time, having learned this lesson, if you've got a lot of software, or hard to configure software, I'd definitely make an image backup of at least the base system.

 

[Len]

Having been, in a previous life, a systems engineer, I have to whine about the special *heck* of drive imaging...

The problem being that if you create a complete image [ a very good thing to do] you may run across the infuriating problem of the image failing to work since you may have replaced a critical hardware component, and the machine now has different drivers, or MAC address, or secure ID numbers.

Chances of being able to replace a failed part with an exact replica are slim and none, unless your IT department has a shelf full of parts ready which are all similar to the one you need to replace, so you know from the get go that you're changing things just enough to make a "different" machine.

Add to that the fact that you may have encrypted files on the machine. If you forget to unzip/open them, copy to another media, transfer and then encrypt them again on the new machine....you simply won't be able to open them again unless you know how to reassign the PC code number! [It can be done, but as you might expect, people are not lining up to tell you how to do what is essentially cracking security].

Long and short of it is that an OS reinstall is easy, and actually a good thing to do every now and then. Program re-installs can be made infinitely easier if, as part of a backup plan, one creates a "slipstream" install disk with the OS and all common programs on it already. The installs just proceed from one to the next with minimal interaction, and they're all on the same disk, lining up for their turn to install.

That way, you 1] rebuild or repair the hardware, 2] use the slipstream disk to replace the OS and the programs, and 3] re-install your old data to the programs using the restore function.

I know...piece of cake, right?!

There are other ways to plan for hardware disaster, but this is the one that works for me.

Len

 

[Salty RI]

VERY interesting. I have a Vista Home Premium machine that I think is entitled to a free upgrade to Win7 from King Bill. Looks like I should proceed with caution should I take up the offer. Mind you, Vista Home Premium has been largely abandoned by the market so i could find myself behind the eight ball either way.

I wouldn't do the upgrade, a guy I know who repairs computers from his house, this upgrade has him rolling in dough.

 

[cmort666]

There are basically two ways to fix this issue before it fries everything.

Make a data backup with a full system image onto an external drive.

Then whilst the new harddrive is in the machine, boot through the external and use the system image to install windows from the external and restore all. Including the apps which will be saved to the system image on the external. Takes less than an hour to do the whole shebang.

#2

If he has lost the old drive, aka its dead.

He needs to do a full re-partition of the new drive to wipe it.

Then use a physical harddrive transformer to transfer the data from the old drive to a external.

Then he can restore to the new drive from the external once windows has been set up. Hard part is a good stand-alone transformer that doesnt require the HDD to be working to work, is in excess of $450.

If his harddrive still works, back it up, make a system image, and then load that all to the new HDD via a external drive and he will have all the exact same files and settings as on the previous HDD

Hope this helps, your local and friendly A+ tech and owner of Lapdropcomputers :-D

1. He's already done a clean install on the new drive and reinstalled his apps, so in this case, anything afterward is mostly academic.
2. He said he was having problems with restore points and backups, but I'm not sure what exactly he tried to do since I wasn't present at the time.
3. The old hard drive is functional, but is throwing SMART "imminent failure" warnings. I told him not to try to do any sort of repair on the original before trying to copy it, but he did anyway. When I had a similar problem a few months ago, I made sure not to alter the original drive and managed to avoid all of this. My dd bit copy had a few minor issues, but was easily repaired. I don't know if he caused the issues by letting check disk (or whatever) run on the old drive.
4. He did a dd bit copy of the old drive to the new one. The machine wouldn't boot off of the new drive, always stopping at "classpnp.sys" or blue screening, nor would it allow a repair install.

At this point it seems to me that the ONLY "solution" to this kind of problem is a preventative one, involving doing an image backup of the base system with the software installed and properly configured. I suggested this to both of my friends, and of course neither of them did.

 

[cmort666]

The problem being that if you create a complete image [ a very good thing to do] you may run across the infuriating problem of the image failing to work since you may have replaced a critical hardware component, and the machine now has different drivers, or MAC address, or secure ID numbers.

In my friend's case, the only thing that failed was the original drive.

Unfortunately, he has ADD (seriously) and tends not to listen. I previously suggested doing an image backup of the base image minus data. I told him not to mess with the original drive before trying to copy it. He ignored both those pieces of advice.