Won this rusty locked up S&W 1917 snubbie at auction yesterday
- Thread starter Bill_in_fl
- Start date
I'd clean it up real good and put a front sight on it and if everything else checks out as to function, just use it. One can get carried away with restoring ($$$$) a piece to get it back to where it once was and it won't ever be as good as an original worn one. I would say those grips are REAL stagg, See how the bark drops off where it meets the frame? The maker went with what nature offered. Plastic,fake stagg always has the bark centered so the "ivory" clear part meets the metal of any particular piece (Colt .22 scouts come to mind)Great score and a swell piece to shoot and carry with no worries about wear from normal use.
All the Best,
Ischia
All the Best,
Ischia
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
Several days ago I ordered a brand new, old stock, ejector rod for my project snubby S&W 1917. Got it off e bay for $23.69 total including shipping.
They have more. Here's a link if anybody here needs a new old stock S&W 1917 ejector rod.
WWI S&W Smith & Wesson 1917 .45 Revolver Extractor Rod P-1057 | eBay
Then today I ordered a 3M, scotchbrite, medium grade, deburring wheel, that not only deburrs, but also doubles as a polishing wheel without any need for rouge. Using this wheel cuts the time WAY down on buffing. Much much easier to buff out a part than just using a sewn fabric wheel using rouge.
You can actually get a mirror polish out of it. I've used one before and it works real good and fast. I'm going to use it to polish out the parts that aren't flat and able to be flat sanded to get pits out of my snubby 1917. It should be here by tuesday. I can't over emphasize how much time you can save using this to buff and polish with compared to using a standard fabric wheel with rouge.
It looks like a stone wheel, but it isn't. Basically it's a very dense, scotchbrite wheel. Really gets the buffing/polishing job done a lot faster and without using rouge. It has a 1 inch hole, but I've got a 1/2 inch to 1 inch shaft adapter to put it on my buffing motor.
Enco has these on sale right now. Reg $68.59, on sale right now for $49.89 with $7.95 UPS shipping.
Here's a pic and the link in case anyone here would like to pick one up from Enco. Just make sure you get the aluminum oxide one at the below link. They have silicon carbide ones that are even finer grit, (mine's medium) but the silicon carbide ones wear out faster. And the medium one I got will still do a mirror polish. I'll follow it up with my fabric buffing wheel with rouge though. Just to get that real SUPER fine jeweler's polish.
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies
So once my new ejector rod and deburr/polishing wheel come in, and I get the chance to work on it, then I'll update you on my progress of restoring my S&W 1917 snubby.
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They have more. Here's a link if anybody here needs a new old stock S&W 1917 ejector rod.
WWI S&W Smith & Wesson 1917 .45 Revolver Extractor Rod P-1057 | eBay
Then today I ordered a 3M, scotchbrite, medium grade, deburring wheel, that not only deburrs, but also doubles as a polishing wheel without any need for rouge. Using this wheel cuts the time WAY down on buffing. Much much easier to buff out a part than just using a sewn fabric wheel using rouge.
You can actually get a mirror polish out of it. I've used one before and it works real good and fast. I'm going to use it to polish out the parts that aren't flat and able to be flat sanded to get pits out of my snubby 1917. It should be here by tuesday. I can't over emphasize how much time you can save using this to buff and polish with compared to using a standard fabric wheel with rouge.
It looks like a stone wheel, but it isn't. Basically it's a very dense, scotchbrite wheel. Really gets the buffing/polishing job done a lot faster and without using rouge. It has a 1 inch hole, but I've got a 1/2 inch to 1 inch shaft adapter to put it on my buffing motor.
Enco has these on sale right now. Reg $68.59, on sale right now for $49.89 with $7.95 UPS shipping.
Here's a pic and the link in case anyone here would like to pick one up from Enco. Just make sure you get the aluminum oxide one at the below link. They have silicon carbide ones that are even finer grit, (mine's medium) but the silicon carbide ones wear out faster. And the medium one I got will still do a mirror polish. I'll follow it up with my fabric buffing wheel with rouge though. Just to get that real SUPER fine jeweler's polish.
Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies
So once my new ejector rod and deburr/polishing wheel come in, and I get the chance to work on it, then I'll update you on my progress of restoring my S&W 1917 snubby.
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Well, you are correct and you helped jog my poor memory. The 1917 that I round butted years ago did not require any welding; however, I didn't do it to a K frame round butt contour either. Obviously, a cut to K RB would remove a large portion of the backstrap. I did the front strap to conform to K RB, but I took the backstrap down as close as I could without cutting into the cavity and then used a set of Goodyear compact grips that covered the backstrap. Not a perfect fit, but I carried the '17 as a duty gun for several years.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
I couldn't stand it. I had to do something on my 1917 snubby while I'm waiting for my deburring/polishing wheel to come in. I decided to take my 1917 snubby apart and give it a good internal cleaning as well as scrub it really hard with some coarse steel wool. I was surprised at how little rust it actually had on it. Results seen below.
The internals looked almost brand new. Nice straw color on the case hardened internal parts as you can see especially well in this pic where I turned on my camera light which shows up the internal parts better.....
Once my new old stock ejector rod arrives to replace my slightly bent one, I could just put it all back together, put a front sight on it, rub some cold blue on it, and call it a day.
But I want something a little nicer and more dignified for this proud old war horse than that. Going to polish this until I can see my teeth clearly in it. Then hot tank blue. Why not. Not that much work and besides....I enjoy it!
Not only do I want to bring this fine old revolver back to life, I want it to dance!
That's all I can do for now until my deburring/polishing wheel arrives. Will update after that.
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The internals looked almost brand new. Nice straw color on the case hardened internal parts as you can see especially well in this pic where I turned on my camera light which shows up the internal parts better.....
Once my new old stock ejector rod arrives to replace my slightly bent one, I could just put it all back together, put a front sight on it, rub some cold blue on it, and call it a day.
But I want something a little nicer and more dignified for this proud old war horse than that. Going to polish this until I can see my teeth clearly in it. Then hot tank blue. Why not. Not that much work and besides....I enjoy it!
Not only do I want to bring this fine old revolver back to life, I want it to dance!
That's all I can do for now until my deburring/polishing wheel arrives. Will update after that.
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shep854
Member
Despite what the gentleman on the other forum said about the cost, I'd say you are getting full value on the transaction, if only for the fun you're having!
If you put a dollar value on all the work involved, it would surely exceed what you paid.
If you put a dollar value on all the work involved, it would surely exceed what you paid.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
I think so too Shep. I try to tell people the same thing,...some of them listen, some don't. You learn how a thing works by taking it apart, fixing it, replacing a worn out part or two, and then you have something nice. Something you brought back from being broken.
I've had a gun in my hands as long as I can remember. I remember dad bringing me home a cap pistol when I was still young enough to be sleeping in my old wooden, cage bar side, baby crib. I actually remember that. Lots of cap guns in my boyhood. Most being pot metal, something would break. I'd take them apart and sometimes fix them and sometimes couldn't with my limited knowledge as a little boy. But I learned. My favorite set was my twin, blue handled, Hubley Colt 38's that I got for Christmas in 1960, seen below with me holding one in several pics from 1960. I was seven and Eisenhower was president.
An identical set of twin Hubley cap revolvers and holsters exactly like I had in 1960. Missed getting this one on e bay. Missed another just like it too. One day going to find that exact set again to hang on the wall with my pics from 1960.
We didn't have computer games back in those days and I spent my boyhood playing outside, climbing trees, cowboys and indians, Zorro, lone ranger, ect. I'd spend a lot of time in my dad's and granddad's workshops watching them fix things and I learned how to fix all kinds of things. Toasters, electric motors, just about anything. Built my own battery powered telegraph set. Made rubber band guns, crossbows, then much later graduated to BB guns. But if something broke, I could usually fix it.
The person at the other forum you spoke of Shep, doesn't understand. They don't see things through my eyes and do not realize how easily sometimes a thing can be fixed with just a little work and how satisfying it can be to do that. In this age of instant gratification, they are used to just buying something the way they want, then when it breaks, they get rid of it and buy something else. I still have tools that belonged to my grandfather who was born in 1898 and lived to be 98 yrs old. In my house before something gets thrown away, I see if I can fix it first.
I've been working on guns for about 40 years. Every gun I have owned I have taken apart to see how it works. Fixed lot of friends and family's guns. Made my own parts many times. Stoned trigger sears, cut black powder barrels and rammers then put sights back on them and re-cut the rammers and latches. Brought an Austrian Steyr hahn 1912 pistol back to life with some filing and a new extractor. Slicked up the actions on my nickel 1860 fluted cylinders Pietta Colt clones.
Turned my 1911 into a long barreled carbine. Spliced broken stocks back together under the barrel band so the splice couldn't be seen, using walnut I carved to shape myself for the upper fore end on an '03 Springfield. Spied by eye a 1896 Krag rifle receiver in a box of rusted metal scrap my cousin had. Cleaned it up for him to use as a good receiver for a restoration. Also broke free his Spencer repeating rifle so it will work again. Multiple little things you pick up along the way from reading about and working on guns.
Made holsters and repaired holsters. Just innumerable things I learned to do with guns. Mostly by hand with a minimum of tools. Like the Arabs do in the Kyber Pass. Although I've accumulated a few tools along the way too. I like aviation and scuba, but guns have been my life long hobby.
It's kind of like art. Someone else may look at an old beat up rusted gun and just see that. I see what I can make it become, and realize with past experience that I can make it become something again. Working on guns builds self confidence so that when a person gets enough experience doing it, they aren't afraid to tackle just about any gun project. But they have to want to do it, enjoy doing it, get a great deal of satisfaction doing it, and maybe listen to an old guy or two along the way when he tells them it isn't a "Piece of scrap metal junk that they think he got took on" when he tells them it isn't. Lol.
But sometimes, rather than just tell them, you have to show them and prove it. Then they and others might get interested enough after watching, to try a few gun project fixes theirselves. Half the time it amounts to just a good clean up and maybe replacing a part or two. Other times it takes a bit more. But all of it is doable and quite often just using simple hand tools like files and elbow grease. Other times you need special tools. I'm not a professional gunsmith, but I'm a self taught amateur one. I don't have the knowlege nor tools of a professional gunsmith. I just fix and do what I can, and if I get stumped, I find someone who can fix it.
All I know is I like it and as you observed, I'm having a lot of fun bringing this old S&W 1917 Snubby back to operational life. Another thing I've done and still do, did it with the snubby and will continue to do so until it is completely finished....is after first using steel wool on it, to get it pretty smooth, I get a little nose and forehead oil on my fingers and I rub the revolver parts hard with my fingers. Might be sitting watching a movie and just rubbing parts of the revolver. You'd be surprised how much rust and dirt you can get off a gun just by rubbing it with your fingers. Makes your fingers strong too. No substitute for buffing but can get it ready for buffing. After using steel wool on it and rubbing the parts with my fingers and fingernails, there is no rust left on the revolver at all except in the bottom of a few tiny pits. This is before it even gets to the buffing wheel. If you've ever noticed a worn doorknob or handrail worn smooth with no rust, same thing. From hand rubbing.
By rubbing like I describe, you will also feel every little nick and burr and rust spot by doing that and know by feel, without even looking, where those spots are to fix with sandpaper, or a jeweler's file (AKA mini files) and buffer. (Most important to have jeweler's/mini files). You will feel the raised area around a stamp, a nick on the edge of a cylinder flute, a rust spot or pitting, etc. And you will remember they are there because you rubbed it so much that you know exactly where every little imperfection is to fix. I also like to think all that rubbing and pressure I put on the gun with my fingers, infuses a little bit of me and my spirit into it. One quality it takes is a lot of patience.
Things like that are difficult to teach to consumer/computer age youngsters who didn't grow up fixing all kinds of things. You can try, but ultimately they have to want to learn, seek out gun repair books and manuals, gain experience and teach themselves like I did. For them to do all that, they have to be driven by a passion for guns. That's not really something you can teach, but you can encourage.
So when someone like that tells me I got took on a "Piece of junk scrap metal", I just smile and resolve to show them what it will become after I get finished with it.
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Deacon KC
Member
Bill, I fully understand and support your decision to re do this fine gun. One of my favorite guns is an old mud puppy of a .38 that I did the same thing with. I can't wait to see the final result.
I think you should definitely stay with a short barrel and retain as many original markings as is practical.
Not a 1917, but same concept:
A buddy helped me round-butt my Ruger Redhawk. If it can be done in 30 minutes to a a Redhawk's metal and grips, it should be fairly simple on an N-frame.
Not a 1917, but same concept:
A buddy helped me round-butt my Ruger Redhawk. If it can be done in 30 minutes to a a Redhawk's metal and grips, it should be fairly simple on an N-frame.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
No pics this post, but here's the latest on my 1917 S&W snubby project revolver.
Last evening I installed my new ejector rod to replace the one I straightened but was still a bit buggered on the big knurled end, hence my reason for getting the new old stock one. Looks great. But I had to do a little hand fitting/filing. The cylinder was hard to close and hard to open after installing the new old stock ejector rod. So I had to file the end of the ejector rod that goes against the spring loaded pin in the underbarrel lug and then polish it with 600 grit sandpaper. Worked like a charm then. Nice and smooth open and close. Dabbed a little cold blue on the end of the ejector rod and looked great.
But I was still having a bit of drag on turning the cylinder with it loaded. I unloaded the full moon clip and noticed burrs on one side of the moon clip from when it was stamped out manufactured. I filed them down and got rid of them, then touched it up with cold blue. (Note to self to do that on all my moon clips).
But even after taking the burrs off the moon clip, I still had drag on turning the cylinder. Then I saw and felt what was causing the dragging. There was a burr I could see and feel all along the length of the cylinder pawl/hand channel on the inside of the recoil shield that I could see when I opened the cylinder. It would catch my fingernail and was scraping the cartridge heads and causing the dragging.
Looked like it was that way from the factory! So I carefully filed it with my mini jewlers files. Saw another burr on the firing pin hole. Filed that down too. Saw a couple of high spots on the recoil shield so I filed and sanded them a little to remove them so that everything was contoured into a graduated slope rather than sharp edges on the recoil shield where the cartridge heads came into contact there.
After that everything worked like a Swiss watch. No more dragging and scraping on the cartridge heads. Cylinder turned freely. Made my evening! Evidently even though this was a lend lease revolver to the Brits, I don't think this revolver saw much actual use firing. The cylinder locks up with almost no play on hammer back. With hammer fully down and trigger held back, you cannot feel any play at all in the cylinder. Amazingly it is the tightest cylinder on any revolver I have ever owned! I mean there is ZERO play in the cylinder with hammer down and trigger fully depressed. When I took off the sideplate to give the internals a good cleaning, the internal parts looked like brand new and are nicely case hardened and have a nice straw color. No rust on the internal parts at all.
Having rubbed the revolver a lot with my fingers, (which I always do with a gun once I have removed rust and am going to refinish it) I had felt a few little nicks here and there that caught my fingernails as well as high spots caused by stampings like the British crowns they stamped all over the revolver. I carefully filed and 600 grit sanded all the nicks and high spots down being careful not to file out the stampings, but just to lower their raised edges so everything was smooth.
Then even though I'm going to mirror polish everything before it gets hot tank blued, I rubbed some cold blue on the exposed metal to temporarily protect it as well as to see somewhat what it would look like after I refinish it. It looks as good as a modern but used revolver looks as well as operates now like a Swiss watch. All I have in it for repair costs thus far is $23.00 for the new ejector rod and my time hand working it. Really happy with how it is turning out. I could just put a front sight on it and keep it cold blued like it is and it would still look and operate great. But I have nicer more dignified plans for the old war horse.
Except for a few very small surface spots of rust on the frame and cylinder, there is no rust left on the revolver. Those small surface rust spots will buff right out on my buffing wheel. After cleaning it up real good I was actually surprised at how little rust there actually was on the gun. When I received it, it was mostly dirty and with dust and lint in the cylinders and bore and just a little rust that a good brushing with steel wool and a little 600 grit and an oiled brush knocked right off. She looked like a Sow's ear at first but has cleaned right up to a silk purse. The cut barrel bore is bright with excellent rifling as I ascertained after shooting six shots through it.
One of the Smith and Wesson forum members has a shot out rifling snubby barrel that he is going to replace, and he's going to send me his shot out snubby barrel. It has an original 1917 half moon front sight on it that I'm going to use on my snubby barrel. Since his barrel had been cut to a snubby and had the original 1917 half moon front sight on it, that means his front sight had to be cut from the original end of the barrel (since the sight was integral with the barrel when manufactured) and that means I should be able to heat it up with a torch to melt the solder that obviously held it to the barrel. Because since there were no snubby 1917's factory made, that means that sight had to have been cut off and soldered to his snubby barrel. His is nickeled though, so I'll have to remove the nickel off the front sight. Gonna be a week or two before he sends me that barrel.
In the meantime, that gives me plenty of time to get it all mirror finish buffed out. Will post more and with pics when I get that done.
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Last evening I installed my new ejector rod to replace the one I straightened but was still a bit buggered on the big knurled end, hence my reason for getting the new old stock one. Looks great. But I had to do a little hand fitting/filing. The cylinder was hard to close and hard to open after installing the new old stock ejector rod. So I had to file the end of the ejector rod that goes against the spring loaded pin in the underbarrel lug and then polish it with 600 grit sandpaper. Worked like a charm then. Nice and smooth open and close. Dabbed a little cold blue on the end of the ejector rod and looked great.
But I was still having a bit of drag on turning the cylinder with it loaded. I unloaded the full moon clip and noticed burrs on one side of the moon clip from when it was stamped out manufactured. I filed them down and got rid of them, then touched it up with cold blue. (Note to self to do that on all my moon clips).
But even after taking the burrs off the moon clip, I still had drag on turning the cylinder. Then I saw and felt what was causing the dragging. There was a burr I could see and feel all along the length of the cylinder pawl/hand channel on the inside of the recoil shield that I could see when I opened the cylinder. It would catch my fingernail and was scraping the cartridge heads and causing the dragging.
Looked like it was that way from the factory! So I carefully filed it with my mini jewlers files. Saw another burr on the firing pin hole. Filed that down too. Saw a couple of high spots on the recoil shield so I filed and sanded them a little to remove them so that everything was contoured into a graduated slope rather than sharp edges on the recoil shield where the cartridge heads came into contact there.
After that everything worked like a Swiss watch. No more dragging and scraping on the cartridge heads. Cylinder turned freely. Made my evening! Evidently even though this was a lend lease revolver to the Brits, I don't think this revolver saw much actual use firing. The cylinder locks up with almost no play on hammer back. With hammer fully down and trigger held back, you cannot feel any play at all in the cylinder. Amazingly it is the tightest cylinder on any revolver I have ever owned! I mean there is ZERO play in the cylinder with hammer down and trigger fully depressed. When I took off the sideplate to give the internals a good cleaning, the internal parts looked like brand new and are nicely case hardened and have a nice straw color. No rust on the internal parts at all.
Having rubbed the revolver a lot with my fingers, (which I always do with a gun once I have removed rust and am going to refinish it) I had felt a few little nicks here and there that caught my fingernails as well as high spots caused by stampings like the British crowns they stamped all over the revolver. I carefully filed and 600 grit sanded all the nicks and high spots down being careful not to file out the stampings, but just to lower their raised edges so everything was smooth.
Then even though I'm going to mirror polish everything before it gets hot tank blued, I rubbed some cold blue on the exposed metal to temporarily protect it as well as to see somewhat what it would look like after I refinish it. It looks as good as a modern but used revolver looks as well as operates now like a Swiss watch. All I have in it for repair costs thus far is $23.00 for the new ejector rod and my time hand working it. Really happy with how it is turning out. I could just put a front sight on it and keep it cold blued like it is and it would still look and operate great. But I have nicer more dignified plans for the old war horse.
Except for a few very small surface spots of rust on the frame and cylinder, there is no rust left on the revolver. Those small surface rust spots will buff right out on my buffing wheel. After cleaning it up real good I was actually surprised at how little rust there actually was on the gun. When I received it, it was mostly dirty and with dust and lint in the cylinders and bore and just a little rust that a good brushing with steel wool and a little 600 grit and an oiled brush knocked right off. She looked like a Sow's ear at first but has cleaned right up to a silk purse. The cut barrel bore is bright with excellent rifling as I ascertained after shooting six shots through it.
One of the Smith and Wesson forum members has a shot out rifling snubby barrel that he is going to replace, and he's going to send me his shot out snubby barrel. It has an original 1917 half moon front sight on it that I'm going to use on my snubby barrel. Since his barrel had been cut to a snubby and had the original 1917 half moon front sight on it, that means his front sight had to be cut from the original end of the barrel (since the sight was integral with the barrel when manufactured) and that means I should be able to heat it up with a torch to melt the solder that obviously held it to the barrel. Because since there were no snubby 1917's factory made, that means that sight had to have been cut off and soldered to his snubby barrel. His is nickeled though, so I'll have to remove the nickel off the front sight. Gonna be a week or two before he sends me that barrel.
In the meantime, that gives me plenty of time to get it all mirror finish buffed out. Will post more and with pics when I get that done.
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OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
A friend of mine at the firing line forum was asking me a question about that extra sideplate I bought recently. I didn't have the knowlege to answer his question, so I just took a couple of pics of the sideplate and posted it for him so he could see the answer for himself. Since I was taking pics anyway, I decided to take a few of the snubby today. Here she is as of today.
Now remember, this is not the completed project. Just nicely cleaned up for now. Will be mirror polished buffed refinished and with front sight installed when I'm done.
Right side when I received it very dirty and lots of surface rust....
Same side today, the rust is gone, but she will get looking even better soon. That cold blue is just temporary....
Left side when I received it....
Left side today. The rust is gone.
Definitely all I can do until my new buffing wheel arrives.
Will update after buffing.
.
Now remember, this is not the completed project. Just nicely cleaned up for now. Will be mirror polished buffed refinished and with front sight installed when I'm done.
Right side when I received it very dirty and lots of surface rust....
Same side today, the rust is gone, but she will get looking even better soon. That cold blue is just temporary....
Left side when I received it....
Left side today. The rust is gone.
Definitely all I can do until my new buffing wheel arrives.
Will update after buffing.
.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
I'm having a great time following your project 1917, thanks for sharing.
Glad you're enjoying it Kframe66. I'm having fun with it too.
Latest update for today.
Laid a half sheet of 220 grit, wet/dry sandpaper on the very flat counter top, then flat sanded the sideplate till all the pits were out of it. Then did the same flat sanding using 600 grit. That got all the pits out of the sideplate and got it ready for buffing.
My deburring/polishing scotchbrite wheel came in today. Got it installed on my buffer motor and in about a half hour or so had the frame cylinder, yoke and a few other parts de-pitted and almost buffed out. Then I took the scotchbrite wheel off and went back to my fabric wheel with white rouge for the high polish.
Buffed some more using that. Got everything highly mirror polished until I could see my face and teeth clearly in it. Here's some pics.....
Yep, even buffed/polished out the lanyard ring. Ejector rod too (but not the knurled part) but forgot to include it in the pic. For anyone new reading this without following the rest of this thread, this is NOT a nickel nor stainless revolver but is the "in the white", highly buffed out, polished carbon steel, of the 1917 S&W.....
When I was looking at the below pic, I wondered what the heck was that round thing in my sideplate? Then I realized it was the flush mount ceiling light fixture reflecting in my sideplate! Lol.
In this below pic you can see the bill of my baseball hat and the lens of the camera (that looks like a barrel muzzle) reflecting back from the sideplate as I took the picture.....
It is so mirror finish shiny now it is hard to take pictures of it since everything relects off the highly polished surfaces.....
Only spent about maybe an hour or so tops (sometimes lose track of time working in the shop) using the scotchbrite wheel and fabric wheel to get the surfaces to this condition. Looks pretty good. But I still can turn it in the light and see a few tiny lines in the frame exterior, so I'll be buffing it some more til I'm satisfied with it.
I'd post some more after I am completely finished with the buffing to my satisfaction, but since my camera won't even do justice to what I've buffed so far, it would be fruitless. So the next time I'll post is after I get it hot tank blued and all finished.
All for now.
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Nice! Did you have to do something to keep it from flash rusting? Or is that just a Pacific Northwest thing?
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
I have it in a flat pan in the house. It won't rust between now and tomorrow when I will buff on it again til I get it just like I want it. Then when I am satisfied with the buffing, I'll wash it off good with hot soapy water to get all the buffing rouge off it, then dry it with a hair dryer, then immerse it in oil in the pan to prevent the air from hitting it til I can get it to someone to hot tank blue it.
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OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
Yesterday I installed a Wolf reduced power spring kit in my other S&W 1917 that's in matte nickel. It gave me a dramatic difference in double action trigger pull. So since I had the factory hammer spring and trigger return spring now as extras from my matte nickel 1917, I felt safe in working on the springs in my highly polished "in the white" S&W 1917 snubby barrel. Figuring if I messed up its springs, I had spares to replace them.
So I took two coils off the factory trigger return spring and with my bench grinder I removed some metal off both sides of the factory hammer spring. Buffed the edges and cold blued the metal where I cut grinded and buffed it, then reinstalled them in the revolver. Worked very well. Not quite as slick and lightened as the Wolf kit on my other 1917 S&W, but very close. I didn't want to take off too much. You have to be careful to not take too many coils off the trigger return spring or remove too much metal from the hammer mainspring else you make them too light and ruin them. It's easy to remove metal but impossible to put metal back on a spring if you remove too much. Very happy with the results of both the Wolf reduced spring kit and my own home modified springs. Double actions are very slick and easy now. But not too easy. Want those primers to always pop when struck.
I gauged the trigger pull of both my matte finish 1917 and my polished snubby 1917, against my blue commercial 1917 and the commercial model was already just as slick and easy to pull as the Wolf springs in my matte nickel one were. I haven't been inside the commercial model yet, but I can tell it either has the Wolf spring kit in it, or else it has had work done on the action, because it is the slickest of all three so I don't need to mess with its springs at all.
I recommend the Wolf reduced power spring kit. And you can do almost the same thing modifying the factory springs....but be careful to not remove too much when modifying the factory springs and make sure you have spares before you try it.
Also this week I received the shot out rifling snubby barrel that member "Jack the Toad" sent me to get the front sight off of to put on my snubby barrel. Heated the barrel and front sight up with my torch and the sight fell right off. Cleaned it up good and will be attaching it to my snubby barrel real soon. Will posts pics when I get it attached.
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So I took two coils off the factory trigger return spring and with my bench grinder I removed some metal off both sides of the factory hammer spring. Buffed the edges and cold blued the metal where I cut grinded and buffed it, then reinstalled them in the revolver. Worked very well. Not quite as slick and lightened as the Wolf kit on my other 1917 S&W, but very close. I didn't want to take off too much. You have to be careful to not take too many coils off the trigger return spring or remove too much metal from the hammer mainspring else you make them too light and ruin them. It's easy to remove metal but impossible to put metal back on a spring if you remove too much. Very happy with the results of both the Wolf reduced spring kit and my own home modified springs. Double actions are very slick and easy now. But not too easy. Want those primers to always pop when struck.
I gauged the trigger pull of both my matte finish 1917 and my polished snubby 1917, against my blue commercial 1917 and the commercial model was already just as slick and easy to pull as the Wolf springs in my matte nickel one were. I haven't been inside the commercial model yet, but I can tell it either has the Wolf spring kit in it, or else it has had work done on the action, because it is the slickest of all three so I don't need to mess with its springs at all.
I recommend the Wolf reduced power spring kit. And you can do almost the same thing modifying the factory springs....but be careful to not remove too much when modifying the factory springs and make sure you have spares before you try it.
Also this week I received the shot out rifling snubby barrel that member "Jack the Toad" sent me to get the front sight off of to put on my snubby barrel. Heated the barrel and front sight up with my torch and the sight fell right off. Cleaned it up good and will be attaching it to my snubby barrel real soon. Will posts pics when I get it attached.
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Frank46
US Veteran
Keep us posted on your project. I'm liking your results a lot. Nice work. Frank
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
Here's my latest progress.
Member here "Jack the Toad" (George) was kind enough to send me his old shot out rifling cut snubby S&W 1917 nickel barrel so I could get the front sight off it to use on my 1917. Thanks again for sending that George. You saved me having to fabricate/mill out a front sight.
Since his barrel had also been cut, in order to reattach the front sight, a flat had been milled on his barrel just barely big enough for the base of the front sight to fit into and be silver soldered. I heated up the front of the barrel and sight and the sight came right off the barrel. Kept some heat on it and wire brushed off the silver solder both from the sight and barrel. Both came out nice and clean. Here's a few pics of his old barrel with the front sight I took off it.
Note the flat milled in the top of his old barrel that the sight fit down into.
(Sorry guys, I've checked, and there is no closeup setting on my cheapo camera. But you can get the idea good enough)
So what I've got to do now is to get to the store soon and get some silver solder since I'm out of it. Then position my revolver and barrel in my mill, align the front sight to the rear sight, then mill the shallow flat on the barrel. Got to make sure the flat is level across the top of the barrel too and carefully mill it so it is just barely big enough for the front sight base to fit down into. Then heat the barrel and sight and let the silver solder flow into the crack where the heat will pull it under and around the base of the sight.
Since I've decided to keep my revolver unfinished, but highly polished "in the white", I'll just keep the nickel plate that's on his old sight and not remove it through reverse electrolysis nickel plating. That will really simplify things. Since my highly polished "in the white" revolver almost looks like it's nickel plated, the actually nickel plated front sight goes perfect with it. I scotch taped the front sight to my barrel just to get a rough idea of what it would look like. It's a little higher than it will be when finished, but I think it will look real good. Here's a couple of pics of the sight scotch taped to my barrel.....
I'll post some more when I get to the store and get some silver solder and get my milling done for the barrel flat and the front sight soldered on.
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Member here "Jack the Toad" (George) was kind enough to send me his old shot out rifling cut snubby S&W 1917 nickel barrel so I could get the front sight off it to use on my 1917. Thanks again for sending that George. You saved me having to fabricate/mill out a front sight.
Since his barrel had also been cut, in order to reattach the front sight, a flat had been milled on his barrel just barely big enough for the base of the front sight to fit into and be silver soldered. I heated up the front of the barrel and sight and the sight came right off the barrel. Kept some heat on it and wire brushed off the silver solder both from the sight and barrel. Both came out nice and clean. Here's a few pics of his old barrel with the front sight I took off it.
Note the flat milled in the top of his old barrel that the sight fit down into.
(Sorry guys, I've checked, and there is no closeup setting on my cheapo camera. But you can get the idea good enough)
So what I've got to do now is to get to the store soon and get some silver solder since I'm out of it. Then position my revolver and barrel in my mill, align the front sight to the rear sight, then mill the shallow flat on the barrel. Got to make sure the flat is level across the top of the barrel too and carefully mill it so it is just barely big enough for the front sight base to fit down into. Then heat the barrel and sight and let the silver solder flow into the crack where the heat will pull it under and around the base of the sight.
Since I've decided to keep my revolver unfinished, but highly polished "in the white", I'll just keep the nickel plate that's on his old sight and not remove it through reverse electrolysis nickel plating. That will really simplify things. Since my highly polished "in the white" revolver almost looks like it's nickel plated, the actually nickel plated front sight goes perfect with it. I scotch taped the front sight to my barrel just to get a rough idea of what it would look like. It's a little higher than it will be when finished, but I think it will look real good. Here's a couple of pics of the sight scotch taped to my barrel.....
I'll post some more when I get to the store and get some silver solder and get my milling done for the barrel flat and the front sight soldered on.
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Armyphotog
Member
How much did they pay you to take the gun? With the money you are going to have to spend on it, I would think you probably could have bought a fairly decent one for the same money. Assume you enjoy a challenge.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
That's just the thing Armyphotog. I haven't really had to spend any money on it because I have done all the work myself. So far all I've put into it money wise to restore it is $19.99 for a new old stock ejector rod to replace the old bent one and $11.06 for a new old stock lanyard ring, both got off e bay. That's it. I enjoy working on guns anyway and it gives me satisfaction for me to do the work myself and bring a firearm back to beauty and functioning when it was headed towards the firearms grave. I've done this with all kinds of firearms over the past 40 years so this isn't my first firearms fix/restoration project. Just my first one on a 1917 S&W. There's no better way to learn how something works than to take it apart, get familiar with how it all works and figure out how to beautify and fix it yourself.
It's a bit of a challenge, but it isn't rocket science.
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Bill_in_fl,
I applaud you efforts so far and envy you having the fun project.
I have had success rounding out the bottom of the sight base and soldering directly to the curved barrel surface. You have already removed the nickel plating and you wouldn't have to mill the barrel.
Actually with the sight taped securely in place I would always shoot it at this point to check for proper sight height. I would hate for the sight to be too low or to have to file thru the nickel plating on the top of the sight blade if it's too high. I always prefer to make my adjustments to the bottom of the sight base.
Just some thoughts and I enjoy following your progress.
I applaud you efforts so far and envy you having the fun project.
I have had success rounding out the bottom of the sight base and soldering directly to the curved barrel surface. You have already removed the nickel plating and you wouldn't have to mill the barrel.
Actually with the sight taped securely in place I would always shoot it at this point to check for proper sight height. I would hate for the sight to be too low or to have to file thru the nickel plating on the top of the sight blade if it's too high. I always prefer to make my adjustments to the bottom of the sight base.
Just some thoughts and I enjoy following your progress.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
Thanks Hondo. I have previously given what you mentioned consideration. I did not remove the nickel plating off the front sight though. But since the front sight was cut off of its previously nickeled barrel, the very bottom side of the sight isn't nickeled. Just its top and sides.
I also thought about just curving the bottom of the front sight so that its curve matched the curve of the barrel and then soldering it onto the barrel rather than using the option of milling a flat on the barrel as was previously done on JacktheToad's barrel that I got the sight off of. That is an option and I might still do that.
I had also thought about that problem and you're right about not having to file the sight once it is installed and making sure it is the proper height when installed and to take any material off the bottom of the front sight rather than the top.
There are several things I thought about doing to make sure the front sight was properly aligned both for windage and elevation.
My first idea was to place the revolver in a vice and make sure the rear sight groove and barrel were perfectly level by using a bubble level or laser level on it. Then along with that, I thought about placing a wire suspended also perfectly level and horizontally attached tightly between two screws in wood....over the very top of the rear sight groove where the tip of the front sight should be seen.
Then keeping the leveled wire at the top of also leveled rear sight groove, I would see if the tip of the front sight blade would just barely touch the underside of said leveled wire. I theorize that should give me the correct height.
There are several variables to consider.
1. What if the revolver did not shoot to point of aim to begin with? Since it didn't have a sight on it when I received it, I don't know. Then my aligning the sights like I described above wouldn't make any difference.
2. If I milled a flat into the barrel for the sight to sit in and be soldered in, would that make my front sight too low? I could check that with leveling the sights and barrel with the level wire, but again...what if it didn't shoot to point of aim to begin with?
3. If I just curved the bottom of the front sight so that it matched the curve of the barrel, with the thought of then measuring its height using the leveled barrel and leveled rear sight groove and leveled wire as I described above, even if I got the sight the perfect height without milling a flat into the barrel, how do I know it would shoot to point of aim without knowing if it did so before?
Hondo, it would be a good idea for me to temporarily tape/attach/superglue the sight (or a front sight blade proxy and not the actual sight) and try shooting it to see if it shoots to point of aim. If I temporarily attached and used a front sight proxy (instead of the actual half moon sight I would install later), then I could bench rest shoot it and adjust the height of the proxy sight until I hit to point of aim at the yardage I wanted. Then I could measure the height of the proxy sight once I got it to hitting at point of aim, and that way make sure that if I measured how deep the flat would be that I could mill onto the barrel, that the half moon front sight would still sit up high enough to replicate the same point of aim that the proxy sight did. If after measuring and taking into account how deep the flat on the barrel would be, if the half moon sight would not be high enough sitting in that flat, then I'd know that instead of milling a flat, I should just curve the bottom of the sight to contour to the barrel's curve. And hopefully that would be high enough.
I hope I wrote all that so it was clear enough for everyone could understand what I meant.
A bit tricky and a sticky wicket getting this aligned. Any other suggestions that might be a better option of doing it?
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Sounds like you have a handle on it! I've used the proxy sight method and it'll certainly work. I'm used to taking a file to the range when I sight-in and adjust a front sight. So I prefer to use the actual sight but that doesn't mean it's better then your method.
On a fixed sight gun I take my half round file and if I have to move the front sight base slightly off center for windage I can cant the round cut under the base slightly to move the sight horizontally but still end up with the blade perfectly vertical. Transferring that angle from a proxy sight would be challenging. I try to make the result look as 'factory' as possible and therefore shy away from the milling cut. Chances are you'll need as much height as possible since a shortened barrel usually requires a higher front sight especially if shooting heavy bullets.
On a fixed sight gun I take my half round file and if I have to move the front sight base slightly off center for windage I can cant the round cut under the base slightly to move the sight horizontally but still end up with the blade perfectly vertical. Transferring that angle from a proxy sight would be challenging. I try to make the result look as 'factory' as possible and therefore shy away from the milling cut. Chances are you'll need as much height as possible since a shortened barrel usually requires a higher front sight especially if shooting heavy bullets.
OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
Thanks for the great tips Hondo. (tip of the hat) I'll keep every bit of that in mind as I figure out the best way to approach this sight alignment.
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OP
Bill_in_fl
Member
I measured the height of my front sight on my full length barrel 1917 and then compared that height to the height of the front sight I'm installing on my snubby barrel 1917. I saw that I could lower the front sight on the snubby. But instead of doing that, so that it would be easier to mount the front sight, I milled a very shallow flat onto the top of the barrel, then J&B weld epoxied it to the barrel. I fired it yesterday to see how it hit at point of aim. It hit at the bottom of a plastic liter bottle low and a few inches to the left of the bottle, tearing a line in the ground where it hit. The blast also blew my sight right off the barrel but I picked it up. For some reason the J&B weld epoxy did not stick very well. That's okay though because it was just temporary to see how it would hit in that position.
But at least it showed me with that one shot where the sight would cause it to hit on point of aim. Since it hit low, I know I need to lower the front sight. But I don't want to file off metal from the bottom of the sight. So I am going to mill a leeetle bit deeper on the barrel flat the sight sits on. That will get it a little bit lower, then I'll stick it back on with J&B weld and see where it hits then. Might have to do this a few times til I get it hitting right at point of aim. But eventually I'll get it hitting to point of aim. No hurry. It's about the last thing I need to do to finish the restoration along with permanently mounting the front sight after I get it hitting where I want.
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But at least it showed me with that one shot where the sight would cause it to hit on point of aim. Since it hit low, I know I need to lower the front sight. But I don't want to file off metal from the bottom of the sight. So I am going to mill a leeetle bit deeper on the barrel flat the sight sits on. That will get it a little bit lower, then I'll stick it back on with J&B weld and see where it hits then. Might have to do this a few times til I get it hitting right at point of aim. But eventually I'll get it hitting to point of aim. No hurry. It's about the last thing I need to do to finish the restoration along with permanently mounting the front sight after I get it hitting where I want.
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Bill,
You might try temporarily attaching the blade with a low fusing lead solder.
As an aside, I recall that before the days of plastic, toothpaste came in lead tubes (Ipana was one brand). I remember my dad using a soldering iron heated in a blow torch to melt the old toothpaste tubes to make solder joints that would be subjected to low stress. Can you imagine the furor that would be raised today if you tried to sell some product you put in your body in a lead container!!
Bob
You might try temporarily attaching the blade with a low fusing lead solder.
As an aside, I recall that before the days of plastic, toothpaste came in lead tubes (Ipana was one brand). I remember my dad using a soldering iron heated in a blow torch to melt the old toothpaste tubes to make solder joints that would be subjected to low stress. Can you imagine the furor that would be raised today if you tried to sell some product you put in your body in a lead container!!
Bob
Bill in fl,
Outstanding, sounds like you don't have much work left to finish! I've had no luck gluing on sights either and use the blue masking tape for testing.
Thanks for the update,
Outstanding, sounds like you don't have much work left to finish! I've had no luck gluing on sights either and use the blue masking tape for testing.
Thanks for the update,
revolvergeek
Member
That is a very cool project! I would love to find a 1917 like that to rebuild. Congrats.
olskool
Member
has there been anymore progress yet?
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