World War I Historians: Help!!

[Cyrano]

My father fought in World War I as a corporal in the 27th Infantry Division, NYNG. They trained at Camp Wadsworth, SC. As they were leaving for the port of embarcation: Norfolk, VA, their company commander, Capt Louis Raecke and the first sergeant, Philip Harnischfeger, were removed from their position in the company because they were both born in Germany. Here is my father's diary entry:

"April 28 (1917), We heard very bad news yesterday ie. that Capt Raecke and the First Sergt can not go across with us because they were born in Germany. That's a War Dept Order. It sure has case some gloom over our company."

I'd never hear of this practice, except in this instance. If it was common, I think it would have been given some publicity. Has anyone else ever heard of this? Any details? Any idea how widespread was the practice, or low long it lasted?


Ca[pt Raecke ultimately resigned his commission. My father, who had pretty good judgement in these matters thought him a good commander. This took place at just the wrong time: the officer who led them through training was removed and a relative stranger would lead them into combat.

Sgtg Harnischfeger managed to get back to the division, although not in my father's company. He survived the war and after the war he was commissioned in the NG.

 

[Jinglebob]

I have never heard of that. In her book, “Americans All, Foreign-born Soldiers in World War I” Nancy Gentile Ford states:

“During the First World War, the U.S. government drafted into military service nearly half a million immigrants of forty-six different nationalities, creating an army with over 18 percent of its soldiers born in foreign countries. In addition, thousands of second-generation "immigrants" also served.”

“While many German and Austrian soldiers joined the U.S. Army prior to the war, others were mistakenly drafted once the fighting began. The War Department asked all camp commanding generals to interview these soldiers to find out if they wanted to remain in service and to evaluate their loyalty.”

 

[Beemer-mark]

I grew up in a small county in North Central Ohio. It was predominately German with the immigrants (including my Grand Parents) coming over between the late 1800's and 1920's. In WWI the area provided a few notorious German spies for the war effort (for German not the US). In the late '30's my uncles (in the Navy) and other military were transferred to the South Pacific. In a county that probably numbered around 5000~7000 we had 32 men at Bataan with 2 survivors at the war's end. Camp Perry was local and was POW camp. Since almost all of the farmers were from Germany the POWs were released during the day as farm laborers. After the war's end they were sent back to Germany from which they got visas to return to Ohio.

So growing up I knew 1 of the 2 Bataan survivors. Otherwise my doctor, the VFW members, the guy that owned the bar, my friend's fathers all fought on the wrong side.

Make of it what you will. The Japanese citizens in the US were not the only ones discriminated against.

 

[11B Lifer]

Support for Germany during WW1

There were a number of large US organizations supporting Germany during WW1-They collected money, conducted rallies etc. up until America declaring war.
It hadn't been that long ago that German speaking troops had fought for the Union during the Civil War.
My fathers grandparents (living in St. Louis) spoke German in the home-His father joined the US Army-but the family had many relatives in Baden Baden.
So it wouldn't have been unusual that US military personnel would have had ties to Germany-
There are communities, here in Missouri, that have cemeteries with hundreds of headstones inscribed in German.
During WW2 my father was subjected to special scrutiny because of our last name-he became a fighter pilot.

 

[cmort666]

It hadn't been that long ago that German speaking troops had fought for the Union during the Civil War.

I went to college in Fulton, Mo.

During the Civil War, the county in which Westminster College resides, Callaway County, seceded from the Union and declared itself a "kingdom".

Taking a dim view of this, the largely German Union supporters in Hermann marched to Fulton. Callaway County had a German speaking army of occupation thereafter.

 

[walnutred]

Don't forget there were other ethnic groups in the US at the time that were very anti-British and so by default considered pro-German. The Irish probably being the most vocal with Scots coming in second. Unlike WW2 I've never found a clear cut ethical reason that we supported Britain rather than Germany in WW1. I suspect that if the US had stayed out another 6 months the war would have ended on it's own.

 

[federali]

Early in that war, it was not certain just whose side our country might support so I'd give those organizations a pass for initially supporting Germany. As things progressed, there was the Zimmerman Note and the sinking of the Lusitania and it became more clear just whom we'd support.

During WWII, we interned Japanese people but soldiers of Italian and German ancestry were allowed to serve and often did in the countries from which their grandparents emigrated. No one ever accused the U.S. government of having an abundance of common sense.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

During War I a number of folks actively supported the Germans. That includes spying and sabotage in this country. Having the commander and first shirt being both Germans was just probably too much for the Regular Army guys.
One of the I think most interesting side changing happened in the Mexican- American War.
A number of Irish mostly from the NY area defected to the Mexican side.
The formed a unit called the San Patricio Brigade and fought the US.
WWII- FDR was greatly concerned about the concentration of Jananese folks living on the West coast. And he certainly did move them inland into camps.
But they were later allowed to join the US military.
They mostly fought in Europe. Many of them served with distinction.
The 442 Regiment, Go For Broke, is reported to be the most decorated unit in that War.

 

[kaaskop49]

My family of German extraction did not have this problem. My most treasured possession is a small Bible that belonged to my great-uncle, brother of my grandma. In the frontleaf, he wrote:

Casper Shurk
France
May 6, 1919
A.E.F.
Air Service
Aerial Gunner

On the cover: C. Shurk
Air Service
World War
France
1918-1919

No amount of money could persuade me to part with this Bible. BTW, the name originally was Schurig; it was Anglicized somewhere along the way.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[Absalom]

During World War I, most Americans weren't really convinced that the Germans were enough of an enemy to get excited about, and once the decision had been reached in Washington to join the war, a lot of effort was expended on government propaganda to demonize the Germans and get Americans riled up enough to support the war effort; after all, Wilson had just won re-election the year before with the slogan "He kept us out of the war". A result of that PR work was a (largely artificially created) anti-German overreaction, including such nonsense as turning sauerkraut into "liberty cabbage" ("freedom fries" anyone?). Many perfectly patriotic German-Americans found themselves under suspicion as a result, and I would think that the fate of these two soldiers had the same origins.

 

[the ringo kid]

Thought not WWI--but WWII. I found it rather interesting that mexico--sent a few Army/Air Force units to fight in WWII--only in the Pacifc. Mexico supplied: one Squadron of fighters, one platoon of Tanks, and I THINK an Artillery battalion.I remember reading somewhere that when an American unit was stationed nearone of the Mexican units--that they had one heck of a boost--in their rations eating Mexican food.

 

[cmort666]

Early in that war, it was not certain just whose side our country might support so I'd give those organizations a pass for initially supporting Germany. As things progressed, there was the Zimmerman Note and the sinking of the Lusitania and it became more clear just whom we'd support.

The Germans brought us into both wars, mostly through stupidity.

In WWI the Germans apparently couldn't leave well enough alone and decided to risk war with the U.S. by making a deal with the notoriously duplicitous Venustiano Carranza. They made an apathetic public WANT to go to war.

It goes without saying that Hitler NEEDLESSLY declared war in the U.S., TOTALLY without reference to any actual treat obligation to Japan.

That's the nice thing about the Germans: if you want to put a bullet in their collective head, just stand aside and let them pull the trigger.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Getting back to the OP, sounds like Adhocracy at work. While WWI contributed to the disappearance of much of the thriving German-American culture in this country, Germans have been the largest immigrant group to this country and were seen then as thtifty, industrious, hard working, well organized, etc. I read some accounts by German officers facing the AEF on the Western Front, among the prisoners they took they noted the large number of "Germans and Half-Germans". Also so many immigrants came here to escape the stuffiness and politically repressive atmosphere of Bismarck's Second Reich. And in both WWI and WWII the top US commanders in Europe-Pershing and Eisemhower-were both of German ancestry.

 

[kaaskop49]

Not to forget Adm. Chester Nimitz.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[semperfi71]

Cyrano,

So far you have not gotten a complete answer. I wish I could help but my knowledge of WWI is thin. My Grandfather fought there with the 36th Texas.

Discrimination against Americans of German descent was very prevalent in WWI, that I know. Your case might have been one of many or an isolate incident created by a higher ranking office. In the day officers had a lot more "privilege" to "command" than they do today.

But if I may I will share this story which I think is quite interesting.

The man who sold me my Ford F250 in October 2000 was born and raised in Fredericksburg, Texas. He told me this.

In 1933 his Father and two brothers (uncles) all went down to the county courthouse and Anglicized their names in a protest of Nazi Germany.

A few years later the two uncles moved to Germany to acquire doctor degrees. They had dual citizenship and utilized to either get a better degree or cheaper.

Sometime just before 1939 the two Uncles were conscripted into the Wehrmacht and made army doctors. One served on the Russian front, the other in Hungary. They survived the war and remained in Germany forever.

The salesman's Father joined the Marines and fought in three Pacific island campaigns, returning home to join the Border Patrol.

Hence one brother fought against two others in separate theaters...in theory.

After the war the salesman's Father, along with the family would travel to Germany and visit the other two brothers. As late as the time of my truck purchase the salesman was still going to Germany to visit and hunt!

 

[the ringo kid]

Not to forget Adm. Chester Nimitz.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Nimitz is also aTexan. He was born and grew up in the Texas Hill Country--Johnson City I THINK??

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Nimitz is also aTexan. He was born and grew up in the Texas Hill Country--Johnson City I THINK??

Fredicksburg, just West of Johnson City.

My old buddy Frank- Guadalcanal flyer, early Navy jet pilot, etc, was also a Texas Hill country German last name American Hero.
Way back, my Mother took in a boarder. She was the wife of a married Aviation Cadet. They both told my Mother they came from Texas German families.
Later, it happened, he went to the dark side. He became a well known lawyer- prosecutor down in Houston.
The first time I ever went to Texas we stopped at their house in Houston.

 

[the ringo kid]

Fredicksburg, just West of Johnson City.

My old buddy Frank- Guadalcanal flyer, early Navy jet pilot, etc, was also a Texas Hill country German last name American Hero.
Way back, my Mother took in a boarder. She was the wife of a married Aviation Cadet. They both told my Mother they came from Texas German families.
Later, it happened, he went to the dark side. He became a well known lawyer- prosecutor down in Houston.
The first time I ever went to Texas we stopped at their house in Houston.

Thank you Pilgrim. Fredricksburg. I remember there used to be aplace there that served homemade Rootbeer--which was the best I ever had. It was .5 a glass (not a realistic price in those days) but was a novelty item one could get--for touring Nimitz's home. I dont know if they are still there?(the business) but after touring Nimitzes home--we went to tour the LBJ Ranch.....

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Getting back to the OP, occurs to me that some Adhocrat came up with a "regulation" so someone more connected could get a command slot and jump the line on overseas deployment.

 

[model70hunter]

Pre WW1 history. At the time we won our independence the US had 2 basic european languages, English and German. It was about 50% each. I think they had an election to see which one would become our national language.

Do you want to consider how WW1 and WW2 may have ended up if we all sprechen sie deutsche?