Would you be upset?

[familyman357oh]

This question came up a LOT when S&W dumped a bunch of no-lock DAO 37-2s on the market in 2006 to clean out their stock of parts. Some barrels were marked +P and others weren't. I don't know how true this is because I'm no metallurgist, but when the question came up regarding whether it is safe to shoot .38 +P in a revolver that doesn't have +P marked on the barrel the most common answer I've read is that if your revolver has a model number rather than a name it's good to go with +P whether the barrel says it or not.

You sent a revolver back for repair. They repaired it, just not using the method you would have liked. I don't blame you for being a bit disappointed that they didn't use the original barrel, but S&W doesn't employ anything resembling craftsmen anymore. From what I can tell, they employ glorified parts-swappers because that's what they can get for what they pay (I did a search on employee wages at Smith & Wesson; it was eye opening in a not-good way). I guar-an-tee that S&W will choose the easiest, fastest way to effect any repairs every time, and swapping the barrel was probably the fastest, easiest, and cheapest way to do it. I'm not saying this because S&W kicked my dog or anything, but I think there's a lot of romanticism here about Smith & Wesson the company and we probably need to adjust our expectations to reality.

It sounds like you have a really nice revolver now and that's the most important thing, IMO.

 

[KenTheHunter]

While I'm the second owner, my recent Model 36-2 purchase was in excellent cosmetic condition (with little use) but once in my possession I noticed that the barrel/cylinder gap was excessive (over .015), it had about .005 end shake, and the timing was slow on 2 or 3 chambers.

Given the minimal use and nature of the issues, the gun likely left the factory in that condition so I believed the issues should have been warranty related fixes but since I'm not the original owner, I agreed to pay for the work. I also did so with the expectation that Smith and Wesson would perform the proper work which was important to me.

After waiting 4+ months (with minimal communication), I received the gun yesterday and was immediately disappointed.

Rather than performing (my understanding of) the proper barrel/cylinder gap adjustment (turning down the barrel shoulder, setting the barrel back, re-face the barrel, and re-cut the forcing cone), I was surprised to see that the smith installed a new (+P) marked barrel which (in my opinion) significantly diminished the value of the gun since it's not the original (or even a period correct) barrel.

Mechanically, the barrel/cylinder gap is now around .005/.007 with virtually zero end shake and the timing is perfect so would you be upset with the barrel replacement or am I overthinking it?

No

 

[familyman357oh]

I wouldn’t mind, but I would have expected them to ask me before changing out the barrel.

If this was a $2,000+ gun, I would mind.

If it was a $2,000 gun I wouldn't send it to Smith & Wesson in the first place. I don't think they even have the capability to reblue their revolvers anymore (other than maybe that bead blasted "bluing").

 

[Beju]

S&W supposedly stopped differential heat treating in the late 1970s, so a 36-2 would be be hardened to the same standard as a Magnum frame. That's not to say that it could take Magnum pressures, but the max 20k psi of .38 Special +P is a ways off from the max 35k psi of .357 Magnum.

Caveat emptor, while I wouldn't make .38 Special +P my practice load, I wouldn't worry about a cylinder or two now and then.

 

[AJR337]

You did not say how the gun shot with the excessive cylinder gap. Does it group better now or not.? Is there a change in velocity? Only by knowing exactly what you had do you know if you have a better gun. If it was shaving lead then of course it would need to be addressed but otherwise not necessarily.

Upon receiving the gun I performed a comprehensive review including a full disassembly and assessment of the internals, etc. Afterwards, I decided that the barrel/cylinder gap was beyond my capabilities and contacted S&W.

Replacing a 40 year old barrel with a new one is the smartest way to go. Why would you expect them to cut on the old one? That makes no sense, unless they did not have a new one. Like anything else, we must put in writing in detail what we expect and then the other side to the contract knows what we expect.

You're very confident but uninformed. The process that I mentioned in my original post is a common method for addressing excessive barrel/cylinder gap (using the original barrel). As others have mentioned, it requires more skill to perform the traditional fix so installing a new barrel is the easier/cheaper way to go.

Your comment that it probably left the factory bad 40 years ago, would get you frowned on by any judge in any court. Nothing would support such an allegation. Everything in law relating to condition of a product is based upon the date of creation. It is illogical to assume that the timing was slow on 2 or 3 cylinders is destroyed by your assessment of "limited use". I have never seen nor heard of a SW leaving the factory with a .015 inch gap and the end shake looks like more that limited use.

Evidently, you're blissfully unaware that S&W has produced some mechanical lemons...I got one. And stating that condition is solely based on date of creation / age is just nonsense.

You bought a used gun with substantial wear, possibly a range gun with limited carry.

No, I didn't...please don't pretend to know more about what I bought than I do. This isn't my first revolver and I can assess common signs of use and wear. I did a detailed disassembly and reviewed not only the cosmetics but the internal parts and can confidently say that it saw very limited use.

Lots of us have some of those. When I have seen guns advertised, they always state the barrel cylinder gap, so I am not sure why you did not know in advance.

I don't see a lot of for sale posts listing barrel/cylinder gap but glad to hear that you do. So in hindsight, I should have asked but didn't. Given the condition of the gun, my guard was down and I didn't ask.

Your statement in excellent cosmetic appearance but lots of end shake and the large cylinder gap, would lead folks to believe it was shot a lot but not carried. What does the cylinder line look like? That usually tells us if the gun was fired a lot.

Again, you're wrong. Based on my hands on review of the facts, I'm confident that it was a case of sloppy production, not excessive use. I attached a couple of pictures so you have some idea of what you're talking about.

So, no, I would not be upset. $160 seems like a bargain to me. And maybe a lesson for us all, write out in detail exactly what you expect when you send a gun in for custom services or repair.

What you have now, is a fully functional gun that is tight and should last your lifetime, that is a good thing. Like other said, shoot it and enjoy it.

Agreed, lessons were learned and I now have an excellent example.

 

[robertrwalsh]

It would have been nice had they reset the original barrel. I have had that done (twice) but neither time by S&W and both times I specified that I wanted the original barrel re-set. On a cost basis you made out OK. Shoot it and enjoy it. Next time be more specific. Excrement occurs.

 

[Rock185]

I would not be upset. You now have safe serviceable carry gun.

 

[fatcat3]

Caveat emptor, while I wouldn't make .38 Special +P my practice load, I wouldn't worry about a cylinder or two now and then.

This, then my opinion, except in cases for reliability, if you need +P you need a bigger gun.

 

[housedog]

They should have contacted you before the barrel replacement, but I agree with the others that you now have a serviceable gun and the cost of the repair was within reason. It probably has a much wider front sight than the original which makes it that much more shootable for me at least.

 

[azhobo]

Since I've never designed a gun of any kind, and owning a 36 no dash, your post and the replies interested me. I've had my 36 for a tad more than 40 years, and fed it mostly my own reloads. I also have a Model 10 that I've had for about the same time. Obviously I load for it too, BUT....... I do use the +P reloads in the K frame now and then, but have never fired any +P's in the J frame. I was always told the J Frames were not designed to shoot +P ammo, and I followed that advice.
After reading some of the responses to your post, I did a little reading, and found an interesting article, on Wiki, with a chart showing the progress of the 36 over the years. I'll try to include a link to that chart here. I have no dog in this fight, and will continue to NOT feed my 36 any +P rounds, but what you do is your choice, for sure.
You said your 36 is a dash 2, the chart indicates that Smith modified the Model 36 to use +P ammo on the dash 9, in, if I recall correctly, 1998.
Please don't think I consider myself as a know it all, or some kind of authority, I definitely do not. I also did not post this to argue over it, I just thought that what I found might be of interest.
With regards to all,
V/R,
Bob

Smith & Wesson Model 36 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[b737lvr]

While I'm the second owner, my recent Model 36-2 purchase was in excellent cosmetic condition (with little use) but once in my possession I noticed that the barrel/cylinder gap was excessive (over .015), it had about .005 end shake, and the timing was slow on 2 or 3 chambers.

Given the minimal use and nature of the issues, the gun likely left the factory in that condition so I believed the issues should have been warranty related fixes but since I'm not the original owner, I agreed to pay for the work. I also did so with the expectation that Smith and Wesson would perform the proper work which was important to me.

After waiting 4+ months (with minimal communication), I received the gun yesterday and was immediately disappointed.

Rather than performing (my understanding of) the proper barrel/cylinder gap adjustment (turning down the barrel shoulder, setting the barrel back, re-face the barrel, and re-cut the forcing cone), I was surprised to see that the smith installed a new (+P) marked barrel which (in my opinion) significantly diminished the value of the gun since it's not the original (or even a period correct) barrel.

Mechanically, the barrel/cylinder gap is now around .005/.007 with virtually zero end shake and the timing is perfect so would you be upset with the barrel replacement or am I overthinking it?

I know I'm late to chime in on this but quite literally the only thing here worth being upset about was the 4+ month wait. But even then at only $160 they did you a big favor. Sounds like they did a fantastic job.

 

[walkin' trails]

Per my original post...

"since I'm not the original owner, I agreed to pay for the work."

With regards to what I paid, the cost was $160.

I consider that cheap. I paid $150 to have the $3 firing pin spring on my 1994 mfg .38 Special 640 no-dash replaced earlier this year. I dint have the tools, the experience, nor were there any YouTube videos covering that particular iteration. So I was at the mercy of a local gun smith who did it in about a week as opposed to S&W’s current less-than-timely turn around I’m experiencing with them trying to get my 43c problems ironed out. I hate the idea of just selling or trading a problem gun without first fixing it, but bad service despite the warranty is making it an attractive alternative.

 

[Dan W. Cady]

While I'm the second owner, my recent Model 36-2 purchase was in excellent cosmetic condition (with little use) but once in my possession I noticed that the barrel/cylinder gap was excessive (over .015), it had about .005 end shake, and the timing was slow on 2 or 3 chambers.

Given the minimal use and nature of the issues, the gun likely left the factory in that condition so I believed the issues should have been warranty related fixes but since I'm not the original owner, I agreed to pay for the work. I also did so with the expectation that Smith and Wesson would perform the proper work which was important to me.

After waiting 4+ months (with minimal communication), I received the gun yesterday and was immediately disappointed.

Rather than performing (my understanding of) the proper barrel/cylinder gap adjustment (turning down the barrel shoulder, setting the barrel back, re-face the barrel, and re-cut the forcing cone), I was surprised to see that the smith installed a new (+P) marked barrel which (in my opinion) significantly diminished the value of the gun since it's not the original (or even a period correct) barrel.

Mechanically, the barrel/cylinder gap is now around .005/.007 with virtually zero end shake and the timing is perfect so would you be upset with the barrel replacement or am I overthinking it?

Your over thinking it.

 

[cowboy94916]

It was broke, you had it fixed and its a shooter not a collector. In good conscious you couldn't use it or sell it the way it was.
So enjoy your working gun it will not lose value in todays market. My vote shoot hell outta it and enjoy.

 

[AlHunt]

Like anything else, we must put in writing in detail what we expect and then the other side to the contract knows what we expect.

... and does whatever they want to anyway.