Writer looking for facts

birdhs

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Location
Red Bank Tn
New member looking for what kind of "gun" a female might have been given as a gift for self protection, fits into pocketbook, for Christmas, 1952. :confused:

A photo would be nice, too. :D This is for a book currently in the works.

It was found in the glovebox of a buried 1953 Cadillac on today's date in the desert outside of Yuma Arizona (at least until the editor starts revisions....:eek:)

Thanx so much. I may be stopping in for other info, I will be needing information on skeet guns in the future when I get an OK from project director.

Greg :)
 
Register to hide this ad
Thank you for the quick responses, now I just have to find out what a 'ladysmith' is and details so I can describe it to my readers.:D

Is there a place on the S&W website that has info on this? Again, thanx Greg:)
 
Browning 25 or Colt 32/380 semi-auto?
(You are an embarrassment to the forum!)


No doubt she would have been given the just released (1952), ultimate personal defense S&W of the era, The Centennial!!
The safest and smoothest double action revolver ever made in the newly introduced J frame in .38 Special!
OnCAtalog2-copy.jpg

Oncase-copy.jpg
 
If you're asking about S&W models, then the S&W Chief's Special, subsequently known as the Model 36, or S&W Centennial, subsequently known as the Model 40, might fill the bill.
Both were small frame, 5-shot revolvers in .38 Special caliber with a 2" barrel, the shortest and most compact models offered at that time by S&W.
 
Greg-

I am a writer and know the issues involved in getting guns right. It will add a lot to your story acceptance to get details correct. I have stopped reading books when it became apparent that the author didn't know what he was talking about.

I think your logical choice is a Colt or S&W snub .38. If it had a light alloy frame (lighter to carry) it would be a Colt Cobra. The steel frame Detective Special is the same gun, except for the material in the frame. Heavier, but more durable, if shot much, and recoils less.

My first choice would be a S&W Chief's Special with round butt and in steel frame. I don't think a girl would want a Centennial; they're ugly and the hammer can't be cocked for a more precise shot with less disturbance to the aim. That would be especially important if she was just learning to shoot, although the average gun carrier then probably didn't practice much unless she was serious about the matter. The average girl might fire one box of ammo and not shoot much thereafter. She might not shoot it at all unless a man took her out to shoot.

I'll answer your skeet gun question now. Either Remington M-870 or a Winchester M-12, either in skeet grade with better grade wood, a ventilated rib on the barrel and a recoil pad. Such a gun would also be effective for hunting to about 25-30 yards. Farther out, you'd want a tighter choke.

Don't give her a Browning automatic: they weren't regularly imported here prior to 1954. Colts discontinued at the end of WW II would still be available, some previously unsold. The choice would be between the .25 auto and the .32 or .380, both in the same basic model. Only caliber differed. How big is her purse? The .25 is less effective, but fits almost all purses, save the really tiny ones.

Look up these guns and see pictures. Try to handle them. Something will tell you which she had, if you know your character. You also need to know the person who gave her the gun. He may have chosen what he'd use, or given her a .32, thinking that was all that a girl could handle. That was very common thinking among men then, even on police forces.

A lot of the advice that you'll get here will be be less than optimum. I once asked about guns that members would have chosen had they been on the Challenger expedition depicted as being in 1919 on a syndicated TV show, "The Lost World." About 70 % of the guns chosen were unlikely, some not even being made then. I wrote fan fiction, and included some guns not seen on the show, in the hands of characters whom I created for particular stories. I thought that someone might hit on one that I'd missed that would fit a particular character. I needn't have bothered. I also enjoyed speculating on what I'd have chosen, had I been on the expedition. It's fun arming characters, but you do have to know guns well and know your characters. And their times...

Keep in mind that a gun found in a burned car might have been damaged by the heat and be unsafe to use, except as evidence.

Good luck with your book. I have one about half completed. I wish the rest of the story was as easy to write as the gun data. ;)

T-Star
P.S. I'll share a humorous gun-author story. In, "Savages", Shirley Conran armed characters with Smith & Wesson "Chick's Specials.":D I assume that she either misheard what an advisor told her, or that her consultant was having fun with her. But a knowledgeable reader could tell what she meant and the book is otherwise excellent. I highly recommend it to those who can find a copy, maybe at the library or used book store. It is an exceptional story of survival near Papua-New Guinea after a terrorist attack. Conran got most of her data from British military survival experts.
 
Last edited:
I'll go with the Chief Special, too...and recommend the Winchester

Model 12 for the shotgun.

FWIW, thank you for taking the time to do this. Some writers do not bother and go with "common knowledge" or outright fabrication and for me this destroys all interest in the story, no matter how well written the rest of it may be.

Many years ago, I was a several times published poet, but I retired on all the money I made...(joke)

Good luck.

mark
 
Thank you for the quick responses, now I just have to find out what a 'ladysmith' is and details so I can describe it to my readers.:D

Is there a place on the S&W website that has info on this? Again, thanx Greg:)



Never mind what a Ladysmith was/is. None of the versions fits the times or the circumstances. Maybe the poster was trying to be humorous. :rolleyes:

The original Ladysmith was a very small .22 revolver made around the turn of the 19th and 20th Centuries. Although possible, I seriously doubt that it would be given to a girl in the 1950's, by which time it was long out of production and regarded mainly as a collectible.

The other guns sold under the LadySmith name are modern, not made in 1952.

I certainly encourage you to learn what the 1952- made version of the Chief's Special looked like and the similar Colts and the .32 and .380 Colt automatics. Also, the Colt .25 auto, if her purses were small.

The imdb Movie Gun Database has photos of many of these, if not all. Someone please post the URL for them, if that's still allowed here under forum rules. I think that's okay, just not posting links to other gun boards. (I got jacked up for that recently.)
 
It also would depend on what kind of woman she was. If she was a 90-pound school teacher, it might be an H&R 22 Defender or an S&W kit gun. If she was a lady of the evening, maybe a derringer that would slip into her garter, or possibly a nickel-finish .380 with pearl grips. A gun says a lot about its owner ... as well as about the person who gave it to her!
 
A gift given to a woman in 52?? I frame 32 Smith. No self respecting male of the early 50's would give his woman a 38....a 32 would be a gun...
There are threads in this section devoted to the I frame 32's....
 
1952--there were a lot of military handguns brought back from WWII, if that would work with your character.

Could pick by size from tiny to large, or by country of origin, or revolver or semi-automatic, or name that is interesting, or caliber....
 
1970 Colt Cobra pics

Here are pics of my 1970 Colt Cobra. I realize you are looking for a 1952 edition. Maybe it will help even though it is a newer model.
All the best with your book.
 

Attachments

  • DSC01077.jpg
    DSC01077.jpg
    112.5 KB · Views: 23
  • DSC01075.jpg
    DSC01075.jpg
    104.4 KB · Views: 24
Hmm, well if you are looking for something out of the norm, I would use a Savage .32 pistol. Not all that common but right for your time period. Maybe a Smith & Wesson Terrier. Another gun that was popular in those days were the little Walther .25's. Nice, slim, exactly what would fit in a purse. Here is a pic of a Walther Model 8 .25 ACP.

walther1.jpg


Another gun could be the old Colt Agent, some of their revolvers would fit the bill.
 
Something to consider here is the financial situation of the gifter. Just because a Chiefs Special was (theoretically) available in 1952, doesn't mean one could have afforded one. And, remember that a small, light .38 caliber which fired the same ammunition as heavier police sidearms may not have been considered an appropriate choice for a man choosing a gift for a woman of that era.

If the gifter were a veteran of World War 2 Europe (or shopped in a gun store that carried WW2 "bring-backs"), a .32 semi-automatic such as a Mauser HSc, Walther PP, etc., would be a logical selection based both on caliber/size and affordability. If a revolver was specifically desired and/or if a newer gun could be afforded, I'd opt for a Smith & Wesson .38/.32 "Terrier." (Note that while this gun was of the same approximate size as the snub-nosed Chiefs Special, it was chambered for the less powerful .38 S&W round, not the police-standard .38 Special round as used in the Chiefs Special and larger police guns.) And, finally, if the lady in question was the owner of the '53 Cadillac, she came from money and probably associated with other rich people. A protective dad or admiring suitor may then have gone with an engraved piece. Something truly lady-like that would fit in even a lady's small clutch purse would be an engraved, nickel-plated pre-war (Model 1908) Colt .25 semi-auto.

Those are my thoughts. Good luck!

Steve
 
If the gun was found in a '53 Cadillac then I'm thinking upscale, either well-heeled country club set, urban sophisticates, wealthy industrialists, or mobsters. How about a tastfully engraved nickel Chief's Special pre 36 with ivory grips? Added twist: It letters from a high-end sporting goods store from Connecticut, New York City, or Chicago.
 
Hey there SDH... I am glad to see that my old #171 lives on!!

To the OP, a Centennial revolver with a grip safety would make a great purse gun.
 
OMG! Had no idea I would get so many helpful responses. Just for clarification, the car was buried in the sand, intact and 'undamaged', NOT burned (altho that was an option).

I don't have time to thank all of you personally, so thanxto all of you.

I will be studying all of your answers and pix and decide on which seems most appropriate.

I actually had not considered the personality of the gift-giver, so I guess I'll have to write him into the story now.

Again, thanx, Greg
 
My vote would be for a S&W DA 32:
SWDA32.jpg


Or a S&W New Departure 32. The bottom gun in the picture was actually carried by a "Madam" of a "Cat House" in St Louis:

SW3NewDepartureL3-1.jpg
 
The Savage 1907 .32 ACP was aggressively marketed to women when it was first sold. "10 Shots Quick" was the advertising slogan and one of the brochures showed a woman with a Savage pistol "running off" a man trying to break in to her house or apartment. Bat Masterson, who had retired as a western gunfitghter and was working as a sportswriter in NYC, wrote that brochure.

Savages are still available, used, and still work now. In 1952 it might have been possible to find one new and unfired.

If I was writing the story I might use a Savage because I could have it on the desk to look at while I worked. I also have a Colt 1903 .32 and a small FN .32. Either would be another possibility.

I looked at a Colt 1903 at a gun store here in Michigan's U.P. that had the original registration papers from 1920 with it. What might interest you is that the 1903 was originally registered to a mine official's wife.

Michigan is one of the states that require a form of registration for handguns. Many states don't. Writers often make the mistake of imposing registration on people who wouldn't have been required to register their guns.
 
Make the gun a LadySmith. LadySmith is a registered marketing term used by S&W for generations to describe a small to medium frame gun appropriate for a lady. Making a S&W a LadySmith is as simple as affixing "LS" after the appropriate model number. Since many guns have been called LadySmith over the years practically any configuration is correct so just use what best fits your story.

LadySmith has the added advantage of having been hammered into the public psyche over the years by S&W marketing and will sound correct to 99+% of your readers right off the bat. It did to you, right?:D

Bob
 
I would vote for the S&W Centennial. A woman would be carrying the gun in her purse, and a Chief Special would get the hammer hung up in all the misc. junk a woman carries in her purse.

I disagree on the skeet gun choices if the character in the book is an avid skeet shooter. An avid shooter would be using a skeet choked Browning O/U (Belgan made) with 26" barrels in the 50's. ( And quite a few still today). It is a more expensive gun. If the character is an occasional shooter and of lesser financial means, then Model 12 skeet gun might be appropriate. The Remington 870 Wingmaster was only introduced in 1950, and I don't believe the Skeet model was produced until later.
 
The personality and expertise of the gifter is essential. Women want jewelry and are sometimes confused, even insulted, when a man gives them a gun. In reality it is a huge gift of love, trust, and respect from a man. A good man anyway, who is secure in his manhood. The gifter could have been a husband, lover, uncle, or father. The gun will reflect his personality/character, and hers.

Will the gun need to work when taken from the car? If so, a revolver is your only choice.

Based on what you've told us thusfar, a nickle plated 32 caliber S&W revolver would be my suggestion. Not the antiquated New Departure but the more modern I-frame 32 hand-ejector (pre-model 30). It would have a 3 1/4" barrel, fixed sights, and a round butt with wood grips. The cylinder would hold a full six rounds of 32 S&W Long. Most men OF THE ERA would have considered the 32 a good ladies gun, but hte 38 Special too powerful for a woman to handle.
 
Last edited:
as a fellow writer i vote for either the chief's special aka the model 36
or a centennial aka the model 40. for the shotgun for shooting skeet i would go with the remington 870 having been introduced in 1950 its a fine shotgun.
 
Last edited:
as a fellow writer i vote for either the chief's special aka the model 36
or a centennial aka the model 40

Those are excellent choices....for now. The Centennial, one of my favorite guns, was underappreciated during the time and was dropped from production in the 60s. Again, most men of the era would have considered the 38 to kick too much and too big for a woman. Double-action only? No way unless the gifter was a shooter and trainer ahead of his time (way ahead). Very different from what we would now give our wives and daughters.
 
I'm surprised that no one has suggested a 2" Military & Police aka a pre M10. A glovebox gun doesn't have to be small and a pre M10 is a lot easier to shoot than a Chief's Special. I've known a number of ladies that have purse carried K frame revolvers.
 
Last edited:
Thanx again for the additional input since my last thank you note.

A clarification: the skeet guns are for a different story and would be set in the present, not in the 1950's. Sorry that I didn't make that clear.

ACP230: interesting note on registrations, I will keep that in my file

HRichard: You are the first person to mention the hammer getting stuck in a purse...hmmmm.

Again, thank you all. I now have enough info to do several other stories and have gotten great pictures, too

Greg
 
Back
Top