Yoke detent ball/spring in older N frame

[19leben]

I recall Hondo mentioning the detent ball in some older N frame models that helps keep the cylinder open. Can’t recall what models and years S&W did this. I’m curious about the possibility of my 1950 .44 Military having this feature. Before I go start gouging up my gun in attempt to find out, and possibly even losing the parts as others have been warned about, can anyone tell me what I should expect?


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[CH4]

I don’t recall any vintage Smiths coming from the factory with ball detents in the crane, they were all custom modifications.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The cylinder hold open detent was mostly on pre-WWII N frame and some K frame guns. S&W dropped it after the war.

 

[Muley Gil]

It was actually a spring-loaded rod in the yoke.

 

[spin132]

Have not seen the ball/detent on an N-frame, but the .38 M&P Model of 1902 has this setup.

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[StrawHat]

I don’t recall any vintage Smiths coming from the factory with ball detents in the crane, they were all custom modifications.

See the set up in post 5. It is a hold open device. The modification you reference is a hold closed device.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

I recall Hondo mentioning the detent ball in some older N frame models that helps keep the cylinder open. Can’t recall what models and years S&W did this. I’m curious about the possibility of my 1950 .44 Military having this feature. Before I go start gouging up my gun in attempt to find out, and possibly even losing the parts as others have been warned about, can anyone tell me what I should expect?


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The Model 1917 had them. I believe so did the 44 Special counterpart.

When I get a chance, I will inspect my Model 1950s and let you know.

And, if you get curious, do the dissembling inside a large plastic bag. You can see what you are doing and the film contains any flying bits.

Kevin

 

[Inland7-45]

I have a second year production.38/44 HD that has this feature.

 

[Hawg Rider]

I believe my .44 HE 3rd Model (W&K Model of 1926) has the feature, too.

 

[Retired W4]

Pin and spring removed.

You can see the hole at the 6 o'clock position.

 

[Timb1]

Also a part of most if not all registered magnums

 

[19leben]

Pin and spring removed.

You can see the hole at the 6 o'clock position.

So it’s at the base of the yoke arm?


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[Pisgah]

I don’t recall any vintage Smiths coming from the factory with ball detents in the crane, they were all custom modifications.

Nope. I know the early 1917's had one...

 

[19leben]

I just pulled my 1954 shipped.44 Military apart. It does NOT have the yoke detent.


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[glowe]

Nope. I know the early 1917's had one...

We would like to see one example. I am a K frame collector and only know of the pin. Never heard of a hold close ball detent?

Here is what I have in my notes.

The cylinder hold open device or detent pin was introduced on the very 1st hand ejector, the ‘I’ frame ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model" thru the “.32 HE Model of 1903 – 2nd Model”, thru ~1919.

It was used and continued in pre WWI K frames beginning on the “38 M&P Model of 1899” thru at least the “38 M&P shipped before 1920. Aalso in the N frames beginning with the 1908 44 Triple Lock.

 

[SS336]

My M&P from 1915 has the hold open pin
I think it was, and still is, a great quality addition that the factory should have done right along.
Probably why we like the older classic revolvers the best.

 

[Retired W4]

So it’s at the base of the yoke arm?


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See photo above.
That's a nice looking M&P.

 

[StrawHat]

We would like to see one example. I am a K frame collector and only know of the pin. Never heard of a hold close ball detent?

Here is what I have in my notes.

The cylinder hold open device or detent pin was introduced on the very 1st hand ejector, the ‘I’ frame ".32 HE Model 1896, 1st Model" thru the “.32 HE Model of 1903 – 2nd Model”, thru ~1919.

It was used and continued in pre WWI K frames beginning on the “38 M&P Model of 1899” thru at least the “38 M&P shipped before 1920. Aalso in the N frames beginning with the 1908 44 Triple Lock.

Gary,

I mentioned the hold closed device in answering a post saying that the spring and ball detention was only custom. My point was to differentiate from the factory (hold open) and the custom (hold closed). The hold open detent is what is located at 6 o’clock on the yoke arm. The hold closed is often on top of the yoke. I do not have a photograph of one, but they were offered by many custom builders, especially if the installed custom barrels.

Kevin

 

[rct269]

The "hold open" device was used on ALL N frames from the Triple Locks on up to examples shipped in the early 1940's---all N frame targets at any rate. Needless to say, I don't know when these guns shipped in the early 1940's were made----with one exception: My .44 3rd Target was made in 1938---that from Jinks during a conversation where I was trying to get comfortable with the prospect of laying out a pile of money for it---all the time knowing there are more than a few of those guns that won't letter as target (because they were shipped as fixed sight guns---and returned to the factory for conversion to target)----and the factory records from which our letters come treat with when they were shipped the first time around.

Now, before all that, all I knew was there were, again, "more than a few of those guns that won't letter as target". I didn't know that all (or at least damn near all) of such guns were EARLY guns. After I done got edumacated by Jinks and Ed Cornett and a few other heavy hitters, I was entirely comfortable laying out a pile of money for it---and it came to pass it lettered as target. I was a happy camper for sure and certain then----never mind I was properly terrified by the prospect of end up with a "bogus target" in the beginning.

So much for N frames, because I had at least one of each shipped from early 1909 right up to the early 1940's---all with "hold open" devices. I can't say the same for K frames even though I had a bunch more K's than N's---and while my 1902 versions had them, I'm drawing a blank about the 1905's. I also can't say anything at all about fixed sight guns, because I didn't have any. No sooner than having said that, I remembered my father-in-law's M&P, and I still have that---so stand by while I see what's what.

What's what is this M&P hails from 1920. It is a fixed sight gun. It does NOT have a "hold open" device. Sitting here today----many moons since my collection went away, I can't say my K frame targets had them or not. The 1902 versions did, but I'm drawing a blank on the 1905's. I'll say they did not have them.

In the for what it's worth department, Chicoine's "Antiques" book doesn't show them for the 1905's-----------but DOES show them for fixed sight N frames.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[glowe]

. . .
I mentioned the hold closed device in answering a post saying that the spring and ball detention was only custom . . .

So no factory installed ball detents were done? That was my suspicion, and would mean any guns that have this hold close option were altered post-factory. So now my question is why? If any revolver would have needed this done, it would have been Colt HEs. All N frames had multiple locking points and any more would have been overkill??