OP
Or before Putin falls.
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You Thought US Aid to UKR and Russian Sanctions Don't Work...
- Thread starter biku324
- Start date
Or before Putin falls.
Exmilcop
Member
Population numbers don't reflect the realities. Of course Russia has a bigger population but they have a lack of military age males due to the decline in births. They lost literally hundreds of thousands of military age males, many of them the brightest and best, who fled when the first mobilization was announced. Putin is terrified at the prospect of another mobilization because the only untouched demographic is the males from the big cities and if they're forced into the meat grinder they will not go willingly or quietly. This is why Russia has been so aggressively recruiting or conscripting from third word nations and the poor Russian satellite republics. I could go on and on, but if you research the topic, the desperate state of the Russian army is stunning.
Lets look at the facts in Ukraine:
The Russians continue to advance. Nevske, Makiivka captured. The fortress city of Vuhledar is now operationally encircled. The Ukrainians are now saying that Vuhledar is no longer strategically important.
What happened to the Abrams? How many are left? How about the old F-16s that were going to be retired but got donated to Ukraine? How are things going in Kursk? Was it a pyrrhic "victory"?
Fact, Russia will do whatever it takes to grind the Ukrainians down. In the end, Russia will end the war on their terms. Also Russia also has friends, like China. Then, there's BRICS.
BTW, with the US $35+ Trillion in debt and the fact that more money is being spent on servicing the debt than military spending.
Tell me I'm wrong.
The Russians continue to advance. Nevske, Makiivka captured. The fortress city of Vuhledar is now operationally encircled. The Ukrainians are now saying that Vuhledar is no longer strategically important.
What happened to the Abrams? How many are left? How about the old F-16s that were going to be retired but got donated to Ukraine? How are things going in Kursk? Was it a pyrrhic "victory"?
Fact, Russia will do whatever it takes to grind the Ukrainians down. In the end, Russia will end the war on their terms. Also Russia also has friends, like China. Then, there's BRICS.
BTW, with the US $35+ Trillion in debt and the fact that more money is being spent on servicing the debt than military spending.
Tell me I'm wrong.
From your lips to karma's ears...
If you actually dig into the figures in the article the OP cites, you will see a more telling picture. There is a table that tracks actual military equipment donations by their overall cost. The US has given five times the amount that the second place country, Germany, has given. The UK is just behind Germany. You have to add up something like the next ten countries' donations to equal that of the US. This info tracks very closely with figures the BBC published last week. The overall figures given as US vs. EU in the header of the article includes non-military aid and funds transfers/loans.
The EU, he said. By country, the EU individual economies are far smaller than ours:
The other salient point is that the equipment we give them money to buy is ours. The money stays here. Boom times for defense contractors.
(As Norm Augustine put it, to paraphrase: Our defense industry is the military-industrial complex in times of peace, and the arsenal of democracy in wartime.)
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Ukraine can get all the money and equipment and the end result is the same - Russian victory.
Ending the war is Ukraine's only option. Prolonging this war means more territory lost and more death - on both sides.
“Older men declare war. But it is youth that must fight and die.”
Tell me I'm wrong.
Ending the war is Ukraine's only option. Prolonging this war means more territory lost and more death - on both sides.
“Older men declare war. But it is youth that must fight and die.”
Tell me I'm wrong.
OP
You're wrong. Russia lost in Afghanistan, as did we. The lesson for small countries v larger ones is simply not giving up. Ever. That's why we exist after taking on the the biggest military in the world in the 18th century.
We got big help, by the way, from another major world power - France, who sent aid, more and more as we doggedly resisted the Brits over the years.
We got big help, by the way, from another major world power - France, who sent aid, more and more as we doggedly resisted the Brits over the years.
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The battle field in Ukraine says I'm right and you're wrong.
So tell me, after all the money and equipment that Ukraine has gotten from the US and NATO, how much Ukrainian territory have the Ukrainians taken back from Russia? How much? Tell me.
BTW those of us who live in reality, know how the war in Ukraine is going to end.
Exmilcop
Member
Tell me I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]
That's twice you've posted your viewpoint so OK, challenge accepted. You're wrong! Consider some facts you seem to ignore. In over 2-1/2 years of all-out war, Russia has managed to occupy 21% of Ukraine. Got that? TWENTY-ONE PERCENT! The Russian economy is collapsing. Their infrastructure is falling apart. People are starting to wake up as to the death toll. Inflation is becoming more and more obvious and the ruble is losing more and more of its purchasing power. Russia is on track for over 700,000 casualties before the end of the year. When the wet season (rasputitsia) hits, Russia's offensive will become exponentially more difficult. Everyone who knows Putin knows that he's violated every treaty and agreement he entered into. A "negotiated" peace or cease fire would condemn all the ethnic Ukrainians in the occupied territories to massive abuse (murder, rape, torture, imprisonment, etc.) and what responsible government could abandon it's citizens to such a fate? Add to that, Putin would violate any such agreement as soon as he had rebuilt his forces sufficiently. You can't negotiate with a rabid animal. Either you kill it, or it kills you. Period!
That's twice you've posted your viewpoint so OK, challenge accepted. You're wrong! Consider some facts you seem to ignore. In over 2-1/2 years of all-out war, Russia has managed to occupy 21% of Ukraine. Got that? TWENTY-ONE PERCENT! The Russian economy is collapsing. Their infrastructure is falling apart. People are starting to wake up as to the death toll. Inflation is becoming more and more obvious and the ruble is losing more and more of its purchasing power. Russia is on track for over 700,000 casualties before the end of the year. When the wet season (rasputitsia) hits, Russia's offensive will become exponentially more difficult. Everyone who knows Putin knows that he's violated every treaty and agreement he entered into. A "negotiated" peace or cease fire would condemn all the ethnic Ukrainians in the occupied territories to massive abuse (murder, rape, torture, imprisonment, etc.) and what responsible government could abandon it's citizens to such a fate? Add to that, Putin would violate any such agreement as soon as he had rebuilt his forces sufficiently. You can't negotiate with a rabid animal. Either you kill it, or it kills you. Period!
BTW, In A-stan, it took 20 years, 4 Presidential Administrations, $3-4 Trillion for the US to replace the Taliban regime...with the Taliban regime. Same thing with with Iraq, and Vietnam. In the last 60 years, the US has a 0-3 record for long drawn out conflicts.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Tell me I'm wrong.
OP
When were you last in Ukraine?
Ukrainians are not giving up - they've lived under Russian oppression before; when they tried to throw off Soviet shackles in the very early 1930s, Stalin responded with with the Holodomor, wherein between 7 and 10 million Ukrainians in the largest grain-producing region in Europe were starved to death. By Russians.
Ukrainians haven't forgotten. Georgians have not forgotten, nor have Armenians, nor have Moldovans, all of which have volunteers fighting Russia in Uktaine.
Ukrainians are not giving up - they've lived under Russian oppression before; when they tried to throw off Soviet shackles in the very early 1930s, Stalin responded with with the Holodomor, wherein between 7 and 10 million Ukrainians in the largest grain-producing region in Europe were starved to death. By Russians.
Ukrainians haven't forgotten. Georgians have not forgotten, nor have Armenians, nor have Moldovans, all of which have volunteers fighting Russia in Uktaine.
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Yeah, we've it all before. The Russian economy is collapsing, casualties, muddy season, sanctions, bla, bla, bla. Battlefield results PROVE I'm right and you're wrong. PERIOD.
It doesn't matter if I've been there or not. Battlefield results PROVE I'm right and you're wrong. PERIOD.
OP
I do recall when the powerful Russians were going to roll over Kyiv in 3 weeks. In the subsequent three years, Russians have possession of about 18% of the pieces of Ukraine nearest the Russian border. The same Russian border that Ukrainians cut through like a hot knife through butter in August, and where they remain despite the best Russian efforts to dislodge them.
Without traveling and knowing people in the countries of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldovs, and also the Baltic nations of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia who suffered under the Russians before you simply cannot understand the depth of people's determination not to again be subjugated by Russian invaders.
By the way. Here's a photo of last week's failed Russian ICBM test. They seem incapable of modernizing their nuclear capability even while their only aircraft carrier, fueled with mazut, settles into the mud at its dock.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authori...opper-001.jpg?crop=2663,1997,x31,y0&width=640
Russia is no longer an aircraft carrier nation
Without traveling and knowing people in the countries of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldovs, and also the Baltic nations of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia who suffered under the Russians before you simply cannot understand the depth of people's determination not to again be subjugated by Russian invaders.
By the way. Here's a photo of last week's failed Russian ICBM test. They seem incapable of modernizing their nuclear capability even while their only aircraft carrier, fueled with mazut, settles into the mud at its dock.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/authori...opper-001.jpg?crop=2663,1997,x31,y0&width=640
Russia is no longer an aircraft carrier nation
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I'll ask you again, after all the money and equipment that Ukraine has gotten from the US and NATO, how much Ukrainian territory have the Ukrainians taken back from Russia? How much?
OP
Five hundred square miles of Russia near Sumy.
I asked about UKRAINIAN territory.
So, they have 500mi^2 of Russian Territory, how does that change the outcome of the war? Why are they attacking Russian territory with reports from both sides clearly show Russian advances all over eastern Ukraine? I would think you'd want to defend what you have rather than get a pyrrhic victory. But what do I know.
500mi^2 is a little bigger than Phoenix, AZ
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