Your Thoughts on Refusing to Ship to a C&R Licensee

[Thiokol]

I've been having a discussion with someone who refuses to ship to a C&R licensee. The following are the reasons that he gives to support his position and I would like to hear everyone's thoughts.

"By shipping FFL to FFL, I'm relieved of any responsibility for any loss, damage or theft. The licensees are accountable for the entire transaction.There is also a paper trail that also helps protect me from any liability."

"Shipping directly to C&R license holders provide zero protection for sellers, and because an FFL becomes the de facto owner when they put a gun on their books, my liability and responsibility ends. If I ship a gun to C&R holder, and it's lost or stolen, who is responsible? If I ship a gun, and it's used in a crime, who may be deemed complicit in that act. An 03 license holder is not necessarily an upstanding citizen, and I don't want to find out the hard way."

What say you?

 

[Sevens]

I say that he's opening himself up to criticism when he gives his reasoning.

At the same time, his ballgame entirely and whether that is his genuine reason or literally ANYTHING else you could conjure, it's his right.

I think it's a poor business decision by him to offer such a reason, he may well be much better off simply saying "sorry" and refusing, which is 100% his right.

 

[Onomea]

I say find another seller, or go with an FFL to FFL. (Sure, I, too, disagree with him, but selling the way he wants to sell is his prerogative, as it yours whether or not to buy from him. Not worth arguing about, IMHO.)

 

[doublesharp]

He's wrong but it's his right.

 

[JH1951]

His biggest error here is trying to justify why he doesn't want to do what you request. He has the right, if not the responsibility, to do business as he sees fit. He is far from alone, as there are many FFL1's that will not accept a C&R. Having had a C&R myself, I have run into this situation. Bottom line is it is his call and his business decision. You and I can talk until we are blue in the face trying to change his mind, and the only thing we will accomplish is having him dig his heels in deeper. He is the seller and he sets the terms. We can take them or leave them. I use a FFL1 now and have no issues doing so.

 

[Thiokol]

His biggest error here is trying to justify why he doesn't want to do what you request. He has the right, if not the responsibility, to do business as he sees fit. He is far from alone, as there are many FFL1's that will not accept a C&R. Having had a C&R myself, I have run into this situation. Bottom line is it is his call and his business decision. You and I can talk until we are blue in the face trying to change his mind, and the only thing we will accomplish is having him dig his heels in deeper. He is the seller and he sets the terms. We can take them or leave them. I use a FFL1 now and have no issues doing so.

Don't get me wrong, I have no quarrel with anyone who refuses to do business with a C&R holder. My issue is with the bizarre reasons he gives. Why not simply say "I choose not to" rather than giving some excuses that really make no sense. If his shipment never makes it to the buyer does he actually think his FFL is going to refund the buyer?

 

[luvsmiths]

All he really needs to do is say No. You can then buy it, or not.

Easy peasy.

I've had FFLs refuse to take a gun on my drivers license. So I shipped it through an FFL.

Easy peasy.

His sale- his rules.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Do I agree with the seller?

No!

Is it his choice?

Yes.

Move along, there's nothing to see here.

 

[alwslate]

If a seller refuses to ship to my C&R I don't buy. Paranoia is the most common mental disorder in our society of supposed normal people.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

But a C&R is an FFL license. Just because its an FFL 03 instead of an FFL 01 doesn't mean the transaction isn't FFL to FFL.

IIRC the FFL type 03 has all the checks and investigations but for a site inspection as the FFL type 1. I'm not sure, is a type 03 FFL license holder required to maintain a gun log book? If yes there is no reason to worry if you sell and ship a gun to a C&R holder.

 

[pawngal]

Some Class 01 FFLs are not familiar with what firearms are eligible for C&R and have no desire to figure it out.
The reasons given to the OP are a bunch of hogwash.

 

[doublesharp]

Yes, as a c&r license holder I am required to keep a bound book and the renewal application I filled out a few days ago is the same form an 01 ffl or a gunsmith ffl uses.

 

[Pisgah]

>" An 03 license holder is not necessarily an upstanding citizen, and I don't want to find out the hard way."

And an FFL holder is a guaranteed good guy? Funny...

 

[Thiokol]

Why not go FFL to C&R? That fulfills his needs but adds no cost on your end.

He does ship through an FFL but the decision not to ship to a C&R licensee is his, not his FFL's. I think that somewhere along the line he was given some bad information as to the lack of a paper trail and where his liability ends if the gun is lost or stolen during shipment.

 

[Thiokol]

Do C&R's show up in EZcheck?

No they don't. However, the local BATFE office will verify it over the phone. I've done it a couple of times.

 

[Eagle 477]

A C&R license is still issued by the ATF. and is a FEDERAL LICENSE

And what do you pay the insurance on shipping for?

Rob

 

[Bald1]

I'm most bothered by the "C&R not necessarily a good guy " remark. My understanding is a C&R goes through the same background check I did for FFL1. Maybe he is a new FFL and is afraid he may make a mistake on what he can and can't send to a C&R. I know I was very nervous anytime I made any transaction when I first got my FFL.

 

[boykinlp]

All he really needs to do is say No. You can then buy it, or not.

Easy peasy.

I've had FFLs refuse to take a gun on my drivers license. So I shipped it through an FFL.

Easy peasy.

His sale- his rules.

I agree with this. But, I have a question. I don't know much about a C&R License, isn't there a number of years that makes a gun C&R eligible? If that is true, and the seller didn't want to deal with you because he couldn't be 100% sure his gun qualified, I would understand that.
Larry

 

[Thiokol]

isn't there a number of years that makes a gun C&R eligible?

It has to be at least 50 years old and in original configuration or restored to original configuration, or it can be a firearm less than 50 years old IF it's listed on the BATFE's roster of Curios & Relics.

 

[desi2358]

I agree with this. But, I have a question. I don't know much about a C&R License, isn't there a number of years that makes a gun C&R eligible? If that is true, and the seller didn't want to deal with you because he couldn't be 100% sure his gun qualified, I would understand that.
Larry

C&R guns can be such because of age (50 yrs since made) or because they were added to the Federal C&R listing (which is on the ATF website), usually due to rarity or otherwise being considered as more of a collectors piece. Some dealers don't really understand the C&R system and simply don't want to deal with it. When we had the shop we accepted C&R though a few times I had to go look a gun up to see if it was actually on the list as the gun in question was less than 50 yrs old.

The person the OP is dealing with sounds like one of those who simply doesn't understand a C&R or what qualifies as one.... And doesn't care to learn. It's his option but I always saw it as throwing away potential business.