Zeroing my 15-22, where do I begin?

[chuck s]

I'd not use that Redfield target unless you're using a telescope as there's no aiming point. And you should zero the iron sights first.

The M&P15-22 comes with USGI-type M4 Carbine sights (just not with a handle) that are adjustable for windage and elevation.

The M4 Carbine is zeroed with the rear sight all the way down with elevation changes made with the front sight only. This may or may not be possible with the M&P15-22 depending on the range you select for zeroing as you may have to raise the front sight too far or lack the travel to lower it far enough.

Start at "mechanical zero:" Rear sight all the way down (the range numbers are meaningless with .22LR) and the front sight post level with the top of the front sight A-frame.

Recommend 50 yards which means outdoors for most of us. If ya really gotta get a quick zero a 25 yard indoor range is better than nothing but you may run out of front sight adjustment. Don't move the rear sight.

-- Chuck

 

[bullittmcqueen]

I was looking at the Magpul MBUS PDF instructions: http://cdn.magpul.com/downloads/MBUS 5x7_090514_Update.pdf

It seems at 100 meters windage is adjusted 3/4 of an inch from POI and elevation is adjusted 1 7/8 of an inch from POI. At 50 meters (Yards) would these adjustments be different?

I also learned I need an A2 sight tool to make adjustments to these sights.

If those are the instructions, then your point of impact will move half as much at 50 yards per click. 1/4 as much per click at 25 yds, etc.

No you don't need a special tool to adjust a front sight on an AR. Most people do this with the tip of a 223 round. I have also used the point of my pocket knife. Tools are sold for this but they are pointless IMO.

 

[LifeInPa]

I'd not use that Redfield target unless you're using a telescope as there's no aiming point. And you should zero the iron sights first.

The M&P15-22 comes with USGI-type M4 Carbine sights (just not with a handle) that are adjustable for windage and elevation.

The M4 Carbine is zeroed with the rear sight all the way down with elevation changes made with the front sight only. This may or may not be possible with the M&P15-22 depending on the range you select for zeroing as you may have to raise the front sight too far or lack the travel to lower it far enough.

Start at "mechanical zero:" Rear sight all the way down (the range numbers are meaningless with .22LR) and the front sight post level with the top of the front sight A-frame.

Recommend 50 yards which means outdoors for most of us. If ya really gotta get a quick zero a 25 yard indoor range is better than nothing but you may run out of front sight adjustment. Don't move the rear sight.

-- Chuck

Well all I am going to have on my 15-22 now are the MBUS and in a few months I will add a red dot as my primary sight. What target do you recommend? I am looking for just a general target that is cheap, in bulk and can be used to zero both irons and optics. I am a little confused with you say rear sights all the way down. They only adjust to the left and right. Do you mean the front sight?

If those are the instructions, then your point of impact will move half as much at 50 yards per click. 1/4 as much per click at 25 yds, etc.

No you don't need a special tool to adjust a front sight on an AR. Most people do this with the tip of a 223 round. I have also used the point of my pocket knife. Tools are sold for this but they are pointless IMO.

Great that means my POI will be different for 7 yards, 20 yards, 40 yards and 50 yards. This makes things much more complicated. At least I don't need that tool.

 

[Majorlk]

US and

What target do you recommend? I am looking for just a general target that is cheap, in bulk and can be used to zero both irons and optics.

As I posted earlier, you can get all the sighting in targets you need FREE at targetz.com.

Free Targets for Shooters!

 

[JaPes]

I guess like you will say it will come down to trial and error.

That's how it was for me. I read about different techniques. I watched different videos. It got confusing and overwhelming.

It was confusing because I had no practical frame of reference in which to put the information & technique into context. I put a few rounds down range and it started to click.

"Oh! So that's what the author/video meant when they said to..."

Great that means my POI will be different for 7 yards, 20 yards, 40 yards and 50 yards. This makes things much more complicated.

That's one that got me at first too. Think of the path of the bullet not as a straight line, but as an ballistic arc.

Draw an arc on a piece of paper. Divide the arc into 4 equal parts with perpendicular lines of the same height. The arc will intersect the perpendicular lines at different places.

In simple terms, this is what a projectile does in flight.

Hypothetically, let's say that the middle line intersecting the arc is your 50yd zero where point of aim equals point of impact. Will the bullet intersect the same spot on the other perpendicular lines on different points in the arc? Nope.

I'm not going to read through this entire thread again. I think I remember a statement that a .22lr bullet drop is 6". Think of it as being near the terminal end of that imaginary arc.

To compensate for the 6" drop at 100 yds, you have to hold up & compensate an equal amount.

Past 150 yards, the drop is so severe that it's not easy to gauge the hold needed to compensate.

This illustration (source = http://www.lassensharpshooters.com/LongDistanceShootingFactors.htm ) is a good visual of bullet path & bullet drop. Notice the path starts out straight, then drops in an arc.

(Direct Source Image Link: http://www.lassensharpshooters.com/ballistics500011.jpg)

At least I don't need that tool.

No you don't, but it just makes it easier.

 

[JaPes]

US and

As I posted earlier, you can get all the sighting in targets you need FREE at targetz.com.

Free Targets for Shooters!

Thank you for the link!

 

[JaPes]

While it's an airgun, I found these three series of videos to be informational.

You can view the position of the intersection of his cross hairs in relation to the actual point of impact. You can also see the arc the pellet takes in flight.

1. Pigeon Shooting 100 Yards in 25mph wind [visible pellets] - YouTube

2. Air Rifle Pigeon Hunt Explained: Mil Dot Ranging Estimation - YouTube

3. Pigeon Hunting in Wind - Chairgun Demo using Mil Dot Scope - YouTube

This one is just amazing. He hits a tiny bird at 125 yds with an airgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38XtL-3SB2o

 

[LifeInPa]

That's how it was for me. I read about different techniques. I watched different videos. It got confusing and overwhelming.

It was confusing because I had no practical frame of reference in which to put the information & technique into context. I put a few rounds down range and it started to click.

"Oh! So that's what the author/video meant when they said to..."

Yeah I just hope everything clicks this time, it's been very frustrating so far.

That's one that got me at first too. Think of the path of the bullet not as a straight line, but as an ballistic arc.

Draw an arc on a piece of paper. Divide the arc into 4 equal parts with perpendicular lines of the same height. The arc will intersect the perpendicular lines at different places.

In simple terms, this is what a projectile does in flight.

Hypothetically, let's say that the middle line intersecting the arc is your 50yd zero where point of aim equals point of impact. Will the bullet intersect the same spot on the other perpendicular lines on different points in the arc? Nope.

I'm not going to read through this entire thread again. I think I remember a statement that a .22lr bullet drop is 6". Think of it as being near the terminal end of that imaginary arc.

To compensate for the 6" drop at 100 yds, you have to hold up & compensate an equal amount.

Past 150 yards, the drop is so severe that it's not easy to gauge the hold needed to compensate.

This illustration (source = lassen sharpshooters - Long Distance Shooting ) is a good visual of bullet path & bullet drop. Notice the path starts out straight, then drops in an arc.

(Direct Source Image Link: http://www.lassensharpshooters.com/ballistics500011.jpg)

Well that I understand somewhat but I am talking about the adjustment points on the irons/red dot. Each adjustment is rated 3/4" of an inch and 1 7/8" inch at 100 yards but if I am trying to zero for 50 yards those figures change. I think all these iron sights should come with multiple figures for 10 yards to 300 yards depending on what the user wants his zero set to. I was asking this question on another sight and the person said if I had to make double the clicks at 50 yards and quadruple the clicks at 25 yards to make adjustments.

No you don't, but it just makes it easier.

I was also thinking a pair of needle nose pliers would make the task easier.

While it's an airgun, I found these three series of videos to be informational.

You can view the position of the intersection of his cross hairs in relation to the actual point of impact. You can also see the arc the pellet takes in flight.

1. Pigeon Shooting 100 Yards in 25mph wind [visible pellets] - YouTube

2. Air Rifle Pigeon Hunt Explained: Mil Dot Ranging Estimation - YouTube

3. Pigeon Hunting in Wind - Chairgun Demo using Mil Dot Scope - YouTube

This one is just amazing. He hits a tiny bird at 125 yds with an airgun.

125 Yard Starling Shot - Rangefinder Demonstration - YouTube

Appreciate it.

 

[JaPes]

Sounds like you've got all the "book" knowledge you need to be successful. Now you just need to keep all of this in mind and get in some trigger time.

You'll get an "A-HA!" moment, and things will fall into place.

 

[LifeInPa]

Sounds like you've got all the "book" knowledge you need to be successful. Now you just need to keep all of this in mind and get in some trigger time.

You'll get an "A-HA!" moment, and things will fall into place.

Great, thanks JaPes and everyone else for the knowledge you guys shared. Once I get my new membership and get out there I will let you know how it went.

 

[photoracer]

First thing you need to do is remember you are chasing the point of impact. So when it shoots to the right you adjust the sights so that the dot or reticle moves to the point where your bullets hit the target, to the right.
When you do that the barrel in relation to the sight moves the opposite direction so when you put the dot on the bulls eye the next time they will be closer or in the correct area of the target. Only pay attention to the arrows of up or right on the sight adjustments if they are going in the direction you want. Some foreign scopes point the wrong way, or used to.
Iron sights are the same principle but as always it depends on the range of MOA adjustments. I have some scopes that each click is 1/2 MOA. Those are usually short range or CQB optics like 1-4x or 1-6x.
I have some scopes with adjustments as fine as 1/10 MOA. Those are long range tactical scopes like 4-14x designed to engage targets out to 600m or more, way too long for a .22LR.
Normally you zero a .22LR at 50 yards or 100 yards depending on the scope. Not a centerfire bolt gun you usually adjust for hunting. Meaning you adjust it to give the greatest over all range of drop or rise so that you know anything in that range will be hit no more than 1" high to maybe 3" low. On my Remington 30-06 that means I usually go to the range and sight it to shoot 1-1.5" high at 100 yards that means I can hold right on the crosshair from around 50 yards to as long as 225 yards at least and know that it will be lethal. If I have to shoot longer then I have to either adjust the sight, use a scope with a ranging reticle or use Kentucky windage. I prefer a scope with turrets I can reset to zero so I can apply windage and elevation correction. But my late father, who was one of the great shots during WWII and hunting afterwards never bothered and just used a German Leitz 4x sniper scope with a single post on his 30-06 and never adjusted anything. And never missed either.

 

[p51mstg]

I use a laser bore sight to make sight adjustments before going to the range. It at least gets me on paper.

I then work from there

I totally agree - this is what I was going to say.

When it comes to sighting in a new gun, I'm no good at all. A couple of years ago, I finally bought a laser bore sighter. It was a cheap one - the kind that sticks out of the muzzle, with several adapters for different calibers.

At first, I regretted it, because that it cost more than I wanted to pay. However, I've sighted in each gun, sometimes several times, and easily saved that much in ammo.

I can get fairly close with the laser. In fact, I don't even bother firing any shots for my pistols - the laser is probably as close as I'll ever get.

For my rifles, I wait until almost dark and then walk off about 50 yards (from my deck to the edge of my back yard is about 50, but I've also done this at the range). I put up a white sheet of paper or tag board and line up my sights. Even with my .223, this is a great place to start - makes my range time much more productive.

 

[LifeInPa]

First thing you need to do is remember you are chasing the point of impact. So when it shoots to the right you adjust the sights so that the dot or reticle moves to the point where your bullets hit the target, to the right.
When you do that the barrel in relation to the sight moves the opposite direction so when you put the dot on the bulls eye the next time they will be closer or in the correct area of the target. Only pay attention to the arrows of up or right on the sight adjustments if they are going in the direction you want. Some foreign scopes point the wrong way, or used to.
Iron sights are the same principle but as always it depends on the range of MOA adjustments. I have some scopes that each click is 1/2 MOA. Those are usually short range or CQB optics like 1-4x or 1-6x.
I have some scopes with adjustments as fine as 1/10 MOA. Those are long range tactical scopes like 4-14x designed to engage targets out to 600m or more, way too long for a .22LR.
Normally you zero a .22LR at 50 yards or 100 yards depending on the scope. Not a centerfire bolt gun you usually adjust for hunting. Meaning you adjust it to give the greatest over all range of drop or rise so that you know anything in that range will be hit no more than 1" high to maybe 3" low. On my Remington 30-06 that means I usually go to the range and sight it to shoot 1-1.5" high at 100 yards that means I can hold right on the crosshair from around 50 yards to as long as 225 yards at least and know that it will be lethal. If I have to shoot longer then I have to either adjust the sight, use a scope with a ranging reticle or use Kentucky windage. I prefer a scope with turrets I can reset to zero so I can apply windage and elevation correction. But my late father, who was one of the great shots during WWII and hunting afterwards never bothered and just used a German Leitz 4x sniper scope with a single post on his 30-06 and never adjusted anything. And never missed either.

Thanks for explaining how it works, I learned a lot from your post. I had no idea the barrel moves opposite of the sight when adjusting. One thing I don't understand is why I have to pay attention to the up or right arrows if everything is zeroing in correctly?

I totally agree - this is what I was going to say.

When it comes to sighting in a new gun, I'm no good at all. A couple of years ago, I finally bought a laser bore sighter. It was a cheap one - the kind that sticks out of the muzzle, with several adapters for different calibers.

At first, I regretted it, because that it cost more than I wanted to pay. However, I've sighted in each gun, sometimes several times, and easily saved that much in ammo.

I can get fairly close with the laser. In fact, I don't even bother firing any shots for my pistols - the laser is probably as close as I'll ever get.

For my rifles, I wait until almost dark and then walk off about 50 yards (from my deck to the edge of my back yard is about 50, but I've also done this at the range). I put up a white sheet of paper or tag board and line up my sights. Even with my .223, this is a great place to start - makes my range time much more productive.

Would a bore sighting device also work with irons? I might buy one since I am getting a red dot shortly. I never used a bore sighter before I assume you can lock the upper/lower closed with this device in the bore? With the BCG removed I assume. What brand would you recommend? I too don't want to spend too much money.

 

[JaPes]

Amazon.com: Bushnell Laser Boresighter: Sports & Outdoors

^ That's the one I use. I put on the .22 caliber nub on the end of it & put it down the muzzle. You can use it with irons, dot, scope, whatever.

I chose this type over the cartridge type because I can use it with different caliber firearms.

Again, it gets you on paper. You still have to make adjustments from there.