"Hope I don't get lynched for posting a picture of a non-Smith!"
Some of us like Colts......and Rugers too!!
Some of us like Colts......and Rugers too!!
.455 Picture Thread
- Thread starter Goony
- Start date
Aussie Collector
Member
I wanted to post a picture of my .455 MK II HE 2nd Model and felt if best go on this post rather than start another.
It has some of the marking as seen on previous posts.
This one has G7 where the others have 44; Broad arrow, crown, G7, E, II.
It doesn’t have .455 stamped anywhere and the barrel markings are of the 1st model?
Granted this an early gun and must have been stamped before S&W changed the patent date stamping?
Was this common?
Cheers.
It has some of the marking as seen on previous posts.
This one has G7 where the others have 44; Broad arrow, crown, G7, E, II.
It doesn’t have .455 stamped anywhere and the barrel markings are of the 1st model?
Granted this an early gun and must have been stamped before S&W changed the patent date stamping?
Was this common?
Cheers.
Attachments
mkk41
US Veteran
Might as well stip the pot some more and show my 1918-vintage Colt New Service in .455 Eley , aka .455 Colt. It must have been a bit rusty at one time show some deep pitting and a desperate attempt at refinishing. But the bore and action are still quite good. Still shows some British and Canadian marks. Paid $200 with those grips on it!
After learning the difference between .455 Eley and .455 Webley ,(I have a Webley that's been shaved for .45 ACP with clips) and having zero luck finding ammo , I was darn close to reaming the chambers for .45 Long Colt. Then I found these and a few more boxes at a flea market.
Aussie Collector
Member
mkk41
US Veteran
Love that bayonet!
Outstanding first post. Your mastery of English is better than many for whom it is their native language!
I don't have the answers to your questions, but I'm certain somebody will come along who can authoritatively address them.
I don't have the answers to your questions, but I'm certain somebody will come along who can authoritatively address them.
Aussie Collector
Member
Thanks mkk41. These bayonets were originally made by WW Greener by modifying a Gras bayonet. Called the “Pritchard bayonet” developed by Captain A Pritchard for the Webley MK VI revolver.
Cheers.
Your gun is clearly a 455 Hand Ejector, 2nd Model.
There are several past threads discussing all of those markings here:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/search...:siodb9lchnk&cof=FORID:9&q=455+markings&sa=Go
Request a letter from Smith and Wesson, by writing to them, Attn: Roy Jinks.
Last edited:
Just to clarify.
The crown with 30 under it, is regarded as a Canadian inspection mark.
Crossed pennants is a British military proof mark. Crossed pennants with DCP, is a Canadian (usually) military proof mark = Dominion of Canada Proof.
A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark.
Opposing broad arrows is a 'sold out of service' mark.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
The crown with 30 under it, is regarded as a Canadian inspection mark.
Crossed pennants is a British military proof mark. Crossed pennants with DCP, is a Canadian (usually) military proof mark = Dominion of Canada Proof.
A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark.
Opposing broad arrows is a 'sold out of service' mark.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 0
Re: Post #66.
Hello Empereur,
I found your post while researching my own 2nd model HE pistol. I have one that's very nearly a twin to your's! The major difference is that mine is marked 2 DS CASF 14 on the back strap. In addition, it is marked B99 on the bottom of the grip instead of a crown over 30. Also mine has exactly the same markings on the LH side behind the cylinder release button but it also has a second set of stamps just to the left. The second set is a symbol over B 2 and that over B. The symbol is very strange. It looks like an Omega that was over stamped with a backwards L.
I've been trying to find out what 2 DS CASF 14 stands for and I've posted that question on a Canadian Soldiers website. I thought it it stood for "Canadian Army Special Forces" (see <http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/koreawar/valour/special>) and I've found that definition in a number of places including websites of standard abbreviations used in the Canadian Army. But now I've learned that it also stands for "Canadian Active Service Forces". The Canadiansoldiers.com website even lists both definitions. <http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianactiveserviceforce.htm> and <http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianarmyspecialforce.htm> (Sorry for the listing the links as text but the Link icon isn't working for me.)
One of the other interesting things that I found was that the term Canadian Active Service Force was only used from 1939 to 1940! Basically it was the unit that was created when the militia was activated in 1939 but before the Canadian Army was created in 1940. The description below is from Wikipedia:
"In 1939, the Canadian Active Service Force (CASF) was mobilized; similar to the CEF, this was a mobilization of prewar PF and NPAM units, who retained their traditional titles. In 1940, the land forces of Canada were retitled. The CASF became the Canadian Army (Overseas), the Permanent Force became the Canadian Army (Active) and the NPAM became the Canadian Army (Reserve)."
As mentioned above, at various times CASF stood for Canadian Army Special Forces. The first link above mentions one of the SF units. That unit was involved in one of the pivital battles during the Korean War and there was a book written about them and the battle. Here is a link to that book <http://www.amazon.ca/Triumph-Kapyong-Canadas-Pivotal-Battle/dp/1554888727>. I believe that the Canadian units that fought at Dieppe in 1942 were also labeled as "Canadian Army Special Forces".
Considering the fact that the Canadian Army used the S&W 2nd model HE from 1915 until 1951, I can't rule out either definition of CASF based on the date of usage.
Do you mind posting the serial number of your revolver? Mine is 24851. I'd like to see if they're close together in SN range. Also does your's have the caliber stamped on the barrel? Mine does not. It's only marked "Smith & Wesson" and that marking is much further to the rear than the ones that are marked with the caliber. it also appears to be hand stamped on mine as the first letters are much deeper than the last one. I have heard of one other of this model (not Canadian) that did not have the caliber marked so it's not unheard of. My guess is that these are early production and the caliber stamping was started later.
I will get pictures and post when I can. I have a buddy that is a professional photographer and he can take some good pictures but will probably take a couple of weeks.
PS.
My revolver does not have the sold out of service stamp. Also the broad Arrow mark without the C is a British Military Ownership stamp. The fact that the stamps on the left side of the gun includes just the BroadArrow stamp indicates that these were owned by the British government at one time. I'm guessing, but I think that these were sold to the British government and that they transferred them to the Canadians. The S&W records of the delivery of the 2nd model HE pistols state that they were ultimately send to the Canadians but aren't exactly clear about if they were transferred to the British first. BTW I've been told that S&W actually send the pistols to Remington/Peters Co in Connecticut. They were the purchasing agents for the British/Canadians. RP then reshipped them.
Alan said: " A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark. "
Actually Broad Arrow C is a Canadian military ownership mark.
Hello Empereur,
I found your post while researching my own 2nd model HE pistol. I have one that's very nearly a twin to your's! The major difference is that mine is marked 2 DS CASF 14 on the back strap. In addition, it is marked B99 on the bottom of the grip instead of a crown over 30. Also mine has exactly the same markings on the LH side behind the cylinder release button but it also has a second set of stamps just to the left. The second set is a symbol over B 2 and that over B. The symbol is very strange. It looks like an Omega that was over stamped with a backwards L.
I've been trying to find out what 2 DS CASF 14 stands for and I've posted that question on a Canadian Soldiers website. I thought it it stood for "Canadian Army Special Forces" (see <http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/history/koreawar/valour/special>) and I've found that definition in a number of places including websites of standard abbreviations used in the Canadian Army. But now I've learned that it also stands for "Canadian Active Service Forces". The Canadiansoldiers.com website even lists both definitions. <http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianactiveserviceforce.htm> and <http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/fieldforces/canadianarmyspecialforce.htm> (Sorry for the listing the links as text but the Link icon isn't working for me.)
One of the other interesting things that I found was that the term Canadian Active Service Force was only used from 1939 to 1940! Basically it was the unit that was created when the militia was activated in 1939 but before the Canadian Army was created in 1940. The description below is from Wikipedia:
"In 1939, the Canadian Active Service Force (CASF) was mobilized; similar to the CEF, this was a mobilization of prewar PF and NPAM units, who retained their traditional titles. In 1940, the land forces of Canada were retitled. The CASF became the Canadian Army (Overseas), the Permanent Force became the Canadian Army (Active) and the NPAM became the Canadian Army (Reserve)."
As mentioned above, at various times CASF stood for Canadian Army Special Forces. The first link above mentions one of the SF units. That unit was involved in one of the pivital battles during the Korean War and there was a book written about them and the battle. Here is a link to that book <http://www.amazon.ca/Triumph-Kapyong-Canadas-Pivotal-Battle/dp/1554888727>. I believe that the Canadian units that fought at Dieppe in 1942 were also labeled as "Canadian Army Special Forces".
Considering the fact that the Canadian Army used the S&W 2nd model HE from 1915 until 1951, I can't rule out either definition of CASF based on the date of usage.
Do you mind posting the serial number of your revolver? Mine is 24851. I'd like to see if they're close together in SN range. Also does your's have the caliber stamped on the barrel? Mine does not. It's only marked "Smith & Wesson" and that marking is much further to the rear than the ones that are marked with the caliber. it also appears to be hand stamped on mine as the first letters are much deeper than the last one. I have heard of one other of this model (not Canadian) that did not have the caliber marked so it's not unheard of. My guess is that these are early production and the caliber stamping was started later.
I will get pictures and post when I can. I have a buddy that is a professional photographer and he can take some good pictures but will probably take a couple of weeks.
PS.
My revolver does not have the sold out of service stamp. Also the broad Arrow mark without the C is a British Military Ownership stamp. The fact that the stamps on the left side of the gun includes just the BroadArrow stamp indicates that these were owned by the British government at one time. I'm guessing, but I think that these were sold to the British government and that they transferred them to the Canadians. The S&W records of the delivery of the 2nd model HE pistols state that they were ultimately send to the Canadians but aren't exactly clear about if they were transferred to the British first. BTW I've been told that S&W actually send the pistols to Remington/Peters Co in Connecticut. They were the purchasing agents for the British/Canadians. RP then reshipped them.
Alan said: " A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark. "
Actually Broad Arrow C is a Canadian military ownership mark.
Last edited:
Broad Arrow
"Alan said: " A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark. "
Actually Broad Arrow C is a Canadian military ownership mark."
Just to clarify; the broad arrow signifies government ownership, it may be applied to clothing worn by prisoners, bricks and other stores used by government departments including the military. The revolver with a broad arrow, British , Canadian, South African etc , is not owned by the military, it is property of the respective government.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
"Alan said: " A broad arrow in a C is a Canadian ownership mark. "
Actually Broad Arrow C is a Canadian military ownership mark."
Just to clarify; the broad arrow signifies government ownership, it may be applied to clothing worn by prisoners, bricks and other stores used by government departments including the military. The revolver with a broad arrow, British , Canadian, South African etc , is not owned by the military, it is property of the respective government.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
Welcome to the Forum. You have a nice 2nd Model there, but the walnut stocks are not original. You will find pictures of original stocks posted here and they all had the large gold medallions in the top of the stocks. These come up for sale and you can search ebay and Gunbroker for a set N frame grips. With the crown over 30, I think that indicates Canadian issue. Is there a "C" stamped anywhere? Is the 455 barrel stamping unchanged?
Check out this thread and you can find more information about 455s.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...245687-long-barrel-1914-s-w-455-revolver.html
Check out this thread and you can find more information about 455s.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...245687-long-barrel-1914-s-w-455-revolver.html
Welcome to the Forum, ncognet0.
Nice old Smith there. The grip are from a later era, but are better for shooting IMHO.
Is it still a .455 or has it been rechambered to .45 Colt? Can you post picture of the marking on the left side of the barrel?
Nice old Smith there. The grip are from a later era, but are better for shooting IMHO.
Is it still a .455 or has it been rechambered to .45 Colt? Can you post picture of the marking on the left side of the barrel?
Charlie Foxtrott
Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,260
- Reaction score
- 2,107
Does anyone know?
Where a bullet mold can be found to make the .455 bullet that these guns like. I have two new Service revolvers chambered in .455 Eley. I have been shooting the 262 grain Webley mk 2 that Fiochi sells out of my guns to good effect. So I have plenty of brass. I would like to be able to roll my own ammo for these great guns. I will try to get a picture of them up.
Where a bullet mold can be found to make the .455 bullet that these guns like. I have two new Service revolvers chambered in .455 Eley. I have been shooting the 262 grain Webley mk 2 that Fiochi sells out of my guns to good effect. So I have plenty of brass. I would like to be able to roll my own ammo for these great guns. I will try to get a picture of them up.
mkk41
US Veteran
deadin
US Veteran
RCBS makes a Hollow Base mould that duplicates the .455Mk II 265gr. bullet. It's a little pricey at around $120.00. Midway has them listed.
Another choice would be to buy the same bullets from Buffalo Arms at around $33.00 per 50. (Just how much you plan on shooting would be the decision maker..) They are back ordered right now and expect to restock in April.
Another choice would be to buy the same bullets from Buffalo Arms at around $33.00 per 50. (Just how much you plan on shooting would be the decision maker..) They are back ordered right now and expect to restock in April.
Charlie Foxtrott
Member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2009
- Messages
- 1,260
- Reaction score
- 2,107
You people are awesome.
I knew that I would get the straight skinny here. Thanks very much for the comeback on this people.
I knew that I would get the straight skinny here. Thanks very much for the comeback on this people.
