Well said. This was exactly the point I was trying to make in another ammo-related thread today, but you articulated it much better than I did.
Could you provide a link for your chart please? Good info!The FBI protocols almost always favor the 147 HP. These are Speer Gold dots but other brands are similar. Before I retired we used the 147 HP on the job based on the testing.
Im a dealer and have seen Fort Scott Munitions come right up. They are actually taking up the LEO ammo demand very nicely.I have carried several loads over the last 40 years. From handloads to Speer Gold Dots. All performed well and, as one member here used to say:
"Shot placement is King, adequate penetration is Queen and everything else is Angels dancing on the heads of pins.”
P.s. I seldom carry my handloads anymore. Once apron a time, cops carried them every day on duty. We had a local Police Inspector that carried his engraved M629 with 180gr 44Mag handloads. When he qualified with his revolver, (early 2010’s) he had a bucket with ice in it to plunge it into between courses of fire.
He was a one of a kind, no two ways about that. His name was Dennis Riechard.
Dennis Reichard | Borden | Ooley Law
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As requested. You just select the rounds you want to compare and select poster on the bottom.
Brother, I have to tell you, testing with water jugs is kind of out of my wheel house. I've never done it. I always shoot 10% , real ballistics gel and it is certified before each shoot by temperature and density. We use a good old BB gun for certification and it is done on every block of gel before we shoot real bullets at it. I can tell you that the 124 grain GD and HST reliably get 14.2 -14.5 of penetration on bare gel out of a 4" pistol. The HST gets a little bigger than the GD due to it's construction. Shorter barrel guns get about the same pentation but don't get as big due to the slightly lower velocity. The advantage to G2 is that it doesn't rely on hydraulics to initiate expansion so the HP doesn't get plugged. It relies on impact and it is very consistent through the various medias in the protocol.
Although +P is not a requirement these days. HST and GD/GD2 work very well at standard velocities and pressures. In fact only the 124 grain is available in +P and generally only nets about an extra 10fps. The 147's in both are not available in +P and the only reason the 124's are still available in +P is because there are still a few uninformed agencies that still spec it.
Well, these 38spl, 160gr FWC @ 1200fps (3” barrel) are kinda like Thor’s Hammer…..just sayin’! Lol
Okay, now, THAT’S COOL!
What most folks don't realize is that velocity is not as critical in regards to penetration as is bullet weight and construction. The 124 grain HST is a great round and that is a good choice, but that 158 grain HPSWC is not too bad. I have shot 148 grain factory HBWC into real 10% gel at 700 FPS and still get 14-15 inches of penetration.
I choose to use water jugs because of the availability of plastic jugs filled with water over buying 10% ballistic gel. Lol
Ranger 9mm, 147 grain, 40 S&W 180 grain. 45 ACP 185 abs 230 grain JHP for the win!
Brother I get that. I hate mixing gel. I've carried so much of it in my trucks over the years, I'm pretty sure a cadaver dog would hit on it. We see an average of about 14.5" out of that bullet in gel but it looks like it gets a little bigger in water than it does in gel. I'd have to look at a recent shoot report but I think the biggest I saw that bullet was around .705-.710. Weight retention is always good with that bullet, which is a bonded construction.
This statement is more important than any test seen live or on Youtube. I have two guns in the same caliber from the same company. They are a Ruger LCP and a Ruger LCP Max. The LCP Max will cycle Sig V-Crowns all day long, it has zero problem with them. The LCP however, doesn't like them and has failures to feed regularly. I'm looking at seeing how both cycle Federal HST rounds to consolidate my ammo, but knowing what ammo your gun can cycle is important. The Sig V-Crown in .380 is a really good round. I am not knocking it. My Wife's Shield EZ and my LCP Max cycle it without issue and it gives really good results. It's just not a good match for my standard LCP for some reason. Find wht ammo works in your gun, because that is waht really matters. If your gun won't cycle the internet's favorite round, then it's useless.
