"Jack Ruby's other gun"?

Qball said:

Not the gun that killed Lincoln, but defenatly Flintlock.
And of "Derringer type"

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Here is John Wilkes Booth's Gun that was on display at Ford's Theatre in Washington... It was a Percussion Cap Model Not a Flint Lock Pistol.. Made by Derringer of Philadelphia. These were sold In Two dueling Pistol Cased allotments. It makes you wonder where the other one may be ? The seller of Jack Ruby's Other Gun, is almost as Theatrical as Booth was him self in his Inaccurate descriptions. Hammerdown

Knowing what We know about Jack Ruby it is Highly Unlikely that His Name would show up anyway. Especially when You consider that he had a Detective Friend of His buy the Gun that killed Oswald just so he could save the 18 Bucks in Sales Tax.

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The seller left critical facts out of this story to make it sound more mysterious than it actually is.

In 1959, Jack Ruby's friend, Dallas Police detective Joe Cody, purchased the Colt Cobra revolver for Mr. Ruby for $62.50 from Ray's Hardware & Sporting Goods in the Oak Cliff area of Dallas. Mr. Ruby went with him because there was nothing illegal about a "straw purchase" in 1959. (Aaah, the good old days. ) Ray's Hardware & Sporting Goods still exists today; the lion's share of their business is, and always has been, selling guns, and IIRC they still have the ledger on which the sale was recorded.

If Jack Ruby was trying to keep his gun purchases a secret, why would he accompany a police detective, of all people, to a legitimate and popular gun store where the purchase was going to be recorded?

carguychris said:

If Jack Ruby was trying to keep his gun purchases a secret, why would he accompany a police detective, of all people, to a legitimate and popular gun store where the purchase was going to be recorded?

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It seems more likely to me that he wanted to get the LEO discount, which might have been substantial. Also note that there was no federally required "recording" of firearms purchases before 1968.

Little does anyone know this, but Oswald bought TWO Carcanos from Kleins. I've got Lee Harvey Oswalds other Carcano. This is the one he didn't grab on his way to the schoolbook depository. He left it at his Mother's house and my friend Lou bought it from her from two weeks after the shooting. I'll let her go for just $10,000.

cowart said:

It seems more likely to me that he wanted to get the LEO discount, which might have been substantial. Also note that there was no federally required "recording" of firearms purchases before 1968.

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This is exactly my point.

1) The seller of the "other" gun is correct Ruby asked a police officer (Joe Cody) to buy the Colt so he could avoid an $18 state tax that LEOs weren't required to pay. Actually, FWIW it was reportedly Cody's idea for Ruby to get a gun because one of his business ventures at the time required him to take thousands of dollars in cash to the bank periodically.


2) There was no federal requirement for gun sellers to record sales in 1959, but Ray's Hardware did record sales. If Ruby wanted an "untraceable" gun, I would presume he would pick a retailer who didn't record the transaction; AFAIK they were abundant at the time.

$18 in sales tax on a $62.50 pistol? What kind of tax rate do you have in Texas?

walnutred said:

$18 in sales tax on a $62.50 pistol? What kind of tax rate do you have in Texas?

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I didn't think there even was a sales tax back then. Must be though because this guy says so and he'd never fib....would he?

Bob

Texas Sales tax

IIRC, Texas sales tax started in the very early '60's @ 2%. Was gonna be only temporary. Nothing more permanent than a temporary tax.

Cary/LL

Jack Ruby's Other Gun

Good evening,
I have been a part of this forum for several years and have always enjoyed the endless resources from individuals who know I lot more about S&Ws then myself. I am a police officer in OH and have a small gun business, and enjoy collecting firearms with any history and especially police history. I have re-started this thread from Oct because this is one place I can tell this story and know it will be appreciated!
As many of you may remember, there was a auction on Gunbroker which apparently listed an old S&W once owned by Jack Ruby. I too saw the listing and needless to say was very skeptical about the story. Well, just a few days before this past new years, I looked for the auction out of curiosity to see if it ever sold. I was surprised to see it still listed and upon looking at the history saw that the price had continually come down over the past 5 months. The current buy it now was now showing $1,500. I reached out to the owner and found some additional information that actually lead me to think there was some validity in the story. I decided to ask their bottom line price and thought for $1,000, maybe I would take a chance. While waiting for a reply that night, I looked around on the internet to see if I could come up with any of the names this gentleman had given me in our conversation. I was surprised to find some of these names in the Warren Commission and became further interested, although I figured I could never be 100% sure if Jack Ruby really ever owned the gun. Without going through the details and still at this moment to my ultimate surprise, I then ran across a police report from the Dallas PD, from 1954. In this report, Jack Ruby was arrested in a bar fight and later charged with CCW. The report went on to say that in his right front pocket was a S&W 38spl and the serial number was an exact match to the auction!!! I think I pushed my enter button through the keyboard hitting the "buy it now" and am happy to say it arrived today and appears to be legitimate. There is much more to the story that further validates the history, but I wanted to share this with the group since I thought many would appreciate the history, regardless of actual value. Thanks for giving me the forum to share the story!

Eric Delbert
#2046

Eric;

I recalled the original thread, and the outcome you describe is utterly fascinating. This sounds like the perfect SWCA Annual Meeting display when you get the documentation. A historical letter from Roy seems a must. Congratulations on doing the research and on your find!

Congrats, Eric. I think the SN nails it. Wow!!!

I remember this thread well. Way to go Eric.

How about some pictures?

Jack Ruby's other gun?

Congrats! Not only do I like to see other LEO collectors out there... I love it when one acquires a gem like this. Congratulations on the buy of a lifetime! RPR

Thanks for all the support everyone! I will take some good pictures as well as include some of the extras that are being sent. I think the grips are "stag" grips and they look real vs imitation. Are they something that would have come from S&W or was that just an aftermarket item?

Eric

Eric,
Holy crap that is incredible. Well deserved as it looks as though you have done some serious research. What's that like a 1000% instant return on your investment?

What was the process you used to come across that police report? I am very intrigued on your research process as it was obviously very successfully done.

Thanks for sharing the story, very cool.

Wow! Please let me retract my previous cynical post!
Thats incredible! Congratulations!
I'm hoping you will grace us with further pictures of both the gun and the police report.
Looks to me like if the seller dug a little deeper he would have gotten a lot more out of this auction. His loss is your gain. Congrats again.
I'm now green with envy!

Hayesd01 said:

Thanks for all the support everyone! I will take some good pictures as well as include some of the extras that are being sent. I think the grips are "stag" grips and they look real vs imitation. Are they something that would have come from S&W or was that just an aftermarket item?

Eric

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Eric;

Anything is possible with the S & W factory for a price, but more likely the stag stocks (they look real to me too) are aftermarket. Historically special-ordered stocks would usually but not always have the S & W medallions. The factory letter would tell you which stocks came with the gun.

In re-reading the gun's listing on GB, it is small wonder there were so many cynical posts on this thread...but again, what an amazing find!

Wow.

Just wow.

That is a stunning outcome to this story. Congratulations. The documented S/N from the earlier police report is all the evidence I need to take this gun seriously.

Way to go! And thank you for reporting back on this gun. Like the other original posters in this thread, I was completely suspicious of the original GB listing but never bothered to add my disbelief to the heap. Perseverance pays off! Good on you.

Tom K said:

I know that linking to an active auction is generally not kosher, but this one is so... interesting... that I can't resist.

Jack Ruby's Other Gun : Other at GunBroker.com

Let's see, a gun of unknown provenance (but "I Guarantee that this is The Real Deal."), a new seller with no feedback, a writeup with Random Capitalization throughout, a couple of poor pictures, only one of which is of the gun itself - yeah I'm convinced! Anyone wanna loan me $15K?

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As the original poster - color me shocked! Congratulations Eric, and I'm happy to have inadvertently led you to an historical artifact. Who'd a thunk it? Not me, obviously. What a difference a bit of digging and some provenance makes.

Oh, and let us know how it shoots!