S&W M&P vs COLT M4 CARBINE

sgtsandman said:
This discussion is going the way I expected. Just like the "which pistol round is the best" debate. No consensus will ever be met and it just breaks down into bickering back and forth.
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Might want to have a second look; vis-a-vis OP's original question, answers have been polite and largely in agreement that overall Colt takes the nod. Wasn't until it went off-topic and became Colt vs more expensive brands that the bickering started.

And since I'm here: M&P Sport is an excellent economical choice that serves most users quite well; Colt's my pick, though, for overall superior parts and build quality.
 
McChemist said:
If Colt abandons the civilian market, then I don't know what market they plan to serve.
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Colt isn't abandoning the civilian market, but as far as what other markets they have (for the M4), they're currently fulfilling multiple huge contracts for overseas militaries.

The new Army carbine/rifle and SAW weapons will fire a 6.8 mm round. As of May 2019, the bidders were General Dynamics, FN, PCP Tactical, and Sig Sauer. Unless Colt is subcontracted or somehow involved, the military market seems like a non-starter. The Army wants to field this in 2020 or 2021.
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Has the 6.8 actually, officially been chosen? I can't find anything indicating that this is past the solicitation phase, and we all know how often much sturm und drang surrounds solicitations and trials only for the whole thing to be canceled -- replacement for the Bradley fighting vehicle being just the most recent example.
 
Hapworth said:
Might want to have a second look; vis-a-vis OP's original question, answers have been polite and largely in agreement that overall Colt takes the nod. Wasn't until it went off-topic and became Colt vs more expensive brands that the bickering started.

And since I'm here: M&P Sport is an excellent economical choice that serves most users quite well; Colt's my pick, though, for overall superior parts and build quality.
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I must agree. Most of the respondents in this thread have have been pretty respectful. Usually, such a thread arouses participation by those perpetually in search of an argument, even if they have little interest in facts.
 
I was at a police shooting event where S&W was a major sponsor. They had a S&W M4, a real M4, with 1/7 marked 14.5 inch barrel, 3 round burst, etc. on display. I believe it was made up to show whomever (.GOV?) that in time of crisis, they could step in and make a military grade M4. After a few people began asking about it, it got put away.
 
Other than my personal M&P Sport, and those of a couple of friends, don't know about other brands. We all find ours are reliable and accurate. I always drooled over the Colt and Daniel Defense, and others, but the Smith was in my budget. What I do know are friends in the local city PD and the state PD. They all had Colts in the past. They all have M&P's now - the difference? When the Colts needed factory parts or work, it cost too much. S&W never asked, just fixed them. And interestingly, they said the Smiths needed much less maintenance overall. Just my observation.
 
the Ar-15 Junkie said:
Correct, his opinion and why exactly do I not have any right on a discussion forum to agree or disagree with said opinion?
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On this forum you are free to agree or disagree. It is the tone that you used twice to rebuff a response. "How do you know" that to me seems a little Pushy for a new member.
 
Unless I’m missing something, the OP asked how the “S&W M&P 15 compares to the Colt M4. Nearly all the discussion and bickering has been comparing a Colt to a Sport. Smith certainly makes ARs with 4150 barrels and/or chrome lined barrels. At least they did the last time I checked.
 
rockquarry said:
I'm not much of an AR zealot...

I can't see a need to overheat or abuse a barrel by seeing how fast a magazine can be emptied. To me, ten rounds through an AR means it needs a cooldown.
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These two statements fully support each other. The AR style gun can handle 10 round and then 10 more and then 10 more without a cooling down period in between. That's what they're designed to do. You aren't hurting your gun by shooting 30 rounds in 30 seconds.

I understand why you want to cool down the barrel, but you're not extending the life any significant amount by doing so.

Also, the gun is designed as a battle rifle. The accuracy most see out of the box, with cheap ammo, is 2MOA or better. I get 1.5MOA or better with every AR I've ever used. If you're expecting better than that from an off the shelf AR, your expectations are too high.
 
My M&P 15 OA is called a "Sport" in some literature. Also advertised as such at the Cabelas where I bought it 3 years ago. It's mechanically identical to the M&P 15's used by my local and state police. There is a WVSP M&P 15 Commemorative in my museum collection now, and after having stripped and cleaned it, I know it's the same rifle. All I know otherwise is mine is very accurate with Federal Eagle 55-grain. And I know what local city and state armorers have said to me.
 
the Ar-15 Junkie said:
Rastoff said:
Only very high end users will be able to tell the difference.

The value is in the design. Stoner made a brilliant design. Yes, there are differences in quality or longevity, but you won't ever notice.
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Your reply is exactly like the ones on the various crotch rocket forums where a squid goes out and buys the latest 200HP liter bike, then squid claims no one can use all its power, because he cant use all its power. Make sense? Because you cant notice doesn't mean the rest of us cant.
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I understand what you're saying, but that's why I started with the first sentence qualifying what I was getting at. You're right, there are some people out there that will notice and are capable of using the differences. Even so, the vast majority of those who buy ARs won't notice any difference.

The motorcycle reference is apt. The average street rider will never be in a situation where they could utilize the full abilities of a modern sport bike. That doesn't mean that no one can, just that most don't/can't.
 
Hapworth said:
Colt isn't abandoning the civilian market, but as far as what other markets they have (for the M4), they're currently fulfilling multiple huge contracts for overseas militaries.

Has the 6.8 actually, officially been chosen? I can't find anything indicating that this is past the solicitation phase, and we all know how often much sturm und drang surrounds solicitations and trials only for the whole thing to be canceled -- replacement for the Bradley fighting vehicle being just the most recent example.
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I'll believe it when I see it. Much to everyone's dismay the 2004 SOCOM pistol trial was canceled. Some even developed new pistols for that contract and some pretty good pistols were designed. I have one so thank you SOCOM.:D

6.8 is a good cartridge and I'll buy a precision rifle when it hits military inventory. I just hope they don't wait too long tho because I'm not going to live forever.

Edit: As of last month congress has not appropriated funds for a new rifle/cartridge. It's probably a few years away at the earliest. May not even happen.

Congress won'''t give Army extra cash for next-generation rifle - Business Insider
 
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2 more cents here. I chose my Sport II over a Colt purely on price and the fact the Sport II had a rear sight, so I could start shooting right away.
Given that the S&W uses the same receiver forgings as just about EVERY other AR maker, I can upgrade the barrel and other parts as I wear them out. So far, I'm pushing 3k rounds without issue. Since I shoot 55gr exclusively, I have no need or desire for a 1/7 barrel.
Regarding Colts, Chris Bartocci has pointed out several times that Colt stopped making all parts in-house years ago. They shop for them like other makers.
An older Colt would be nice to have; all reports praise them highly, but it's not a need for me.
 
shep854 said:
2 more cents here. I chose my Sport II over a Colt purely on price and the fact the Sport II had a rear sight, so I could start shooting right away.
Given that the S&W uses the same receiver forgings as just about EVERY other AR maker, I can upgrade the barrel and other parts as I wear them out. So far, I'm pushing 3k rounds without issue. Since I shoot 55gr exclusively, I have no need or desire for a 1/7 barrel.
Regarding Colts, Chris Bartocci has pointed out several times that Colt stopped making all parts in-house years ago. They shop for them like other makers.
An older Colt would be nice to have; all reports praise them highly, but it's not a need for me.
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Awesome! Enjoy your rifle. 3000 rounds is nothing down an AR tube for your average shooter. I reckon you'll be 10k in before you'd really be considering a barrel change.

If I may make a recommendation, the 1:7.7 or the 1:8 Twists with a .223 Wylde chamber will digest both .223 and 5.56 in the whole useful range of bullet weights. 1:7 also will stabilize a 55 grain projectile just fine out of most rifles. The whole twist rate thing is a bit over blown at the distances 90% of people shoot with AR's.
 
feduncan said:
How does the S&W M&P 15 stack up against the Colt M4 Carbine?
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From what I've read of your other posts and intended use, the S&W M&P 15 would work just fine, save you some (a great deal of) money and any headaches dealing with manufactures.

S&W has outstanding customer support and a fantastic warrantee. I still have the original Sport and "T" models and have had zero issues over the many years and rounds put through them.

I also own Colts (older models) and can't see anything special about paying extra to have a dancing pony stamped on the side. Never cared for the first assembly line M-16s issued to us in the Military or the early upgrades. Customer support was never their high point. Not to mention wasting the time trying to find an almost extinct version since they stopped production of the civilian version forcing the already over priced versions even higher. Nice thing, mine have taken a big jump in collector value.

I also have other quality lower end manufactures and MUCH higher end manufactures in my collection. Higher end are "usually" above Mil Spec, hand assembled and much more pricey.

The term "Mil Spec" is a joke. It means the minimum quality for the lowest cost, mass produced off an assembly line and the parts are interchangeable.
 
One thing, if you go to the gun show and buy Smith M&P sport, it comes with the skinny CAR-15 type handguards and no heat shields. Somewhere at the show you will find Colt M4 takeoffs brand new for $10. Buy them.
 
Univibe said:
One thing, if you go to the gun show and buy Smith M&P sport, it comes with the skinny CAR-15 type handguards and no heat shields. Somewhere at the show you will find Colt M4 takeoffs brand new for $10. Buy them.
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I changed out my handguards right away, but went with MOEs; the shape just feels better in my hand. I have put the originals back on, but quickly return to the Magpul product.
 
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