Austin Behlert Conversion 32?

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Green Frog

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I mentioned this in another thread, but the question will probably get more exposure if it gets its own thread, so here goes. Something like 20-25 years ago I ran into Austin Behlert at his table at an NRA show (in Philadelphia, perhaps?) and he was showing off his latest toy, a Model 41 converted to shoot 32 S&W Long Wadcutters. Does anyone know whether he brought that project to fruition and how many were made? Also, does anyone have one they can give a performance report for?

TIA ~ Froggie
 
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Hello Frog!

I can't address whether Behlert produced his converted 41 in quantity. My question is, why are you so focused on the 32 S&W Long? I do realize that it is a great target cartridge, but it's forte has been revolvers. I think that it was the Walther GSP (or OSP) that were the more common 32 S&W Long semi-auto target pistols, followed by the Hammerli.

If you are looking for a light recoiling, accurate handgun for the centerfire stage of NRA 2700 matches, the three most common solutions have been:
a) 38 Special revolver shooting wadcutters (K38, Colt OMM, or Colt Python)
b) Model 52 or 1911 National Match shooting 38 Special wadcutters, or 38 AMU
c) 1911 shooting light 45 SWC (about 700 fps, using a 12-14# recoil spring

Figure that a 38 Special semi-auto is going to be as expensive, or more so, as a K32 or a 32 semi-auto. A bullseye 1911 will run you in the neighborhood of a grand. Depending on how patient you are, a K38 could be had for between $600-800, possibly less.

I hope that this helps.
 
I've got a custom built 70 Series Gold Cup 45, a couple of K-38s and a Model 52. I also have a custom built 327 Fed Mag (Stainless K-frame) and a pre-War Regulation Police Target in 32 S&W. So why do I want a semi-auto 32 wad gun? Because I don't have one! Did I mention that I haven't shot a round of Bullseye for at least 15 years? Frogs aren't rational people. :D
 
I have some of the mentioned guns above and some in multiple quantities. I don't shoot any competition, I just like to shoot. The .32 long is a COOL round and some of us are intrigued with it. I went one step further, have a T/C Contender in .32 that I shoot off hand cause there are no .32 single shot handguns. Larry
 
I remember listing to a conversation from a Team USA shooter that Behlert was working on the 41, but at that time, never got the bugs worked out.
Behlert's shop was in Pipersville Pa. back then, and Austin did a trigger job on my Victor while I waited. Another time I had a barrel removed from my Model 15 and they put on a 6" barrel they had laying around. And again, I waited in the showroom for 15 minutes and done.
 
An intriguing question that I wish I had an answer to. Please do follow-up if you learn anything. I still remember back when I was young(er), self-employed, and struggling. I was offered 2 pistol in the same week; 1 was a Danish contract P-210 for about $700, and the other was a Behlert 1911 Series 70 with a lot of bells and whistles for $550.

It was one of those times when I had the money but couldn't afford the items...both of those guns still haunt me.

Good luck on your search for info.

GHEN
 
lrrifleman said:
My question is, why are you so focused on the 32 S&W Long?...
Click to expand...

Say whaaaaat? :D

I've been shooting a lot of years now. I've long since gotten tired of being kicked around continuously by .44 Magnums and these days I find the .32 and similar guns just pretty darned nice. :) I'd love to have one of the Euro .32 target autos - one of the few handguns I've never owned and would still love to have. Maybe some day... :o
 
lrrifleman said:
Hello Frog!
My question is, why are you so focused on the 32 S&W Long?
Click to expand...

In the words of the Lovin' Spoonful's John Sebastian, "It's like tryin' to tell a stranger 'bout Rock 'n Roll!"

Perhaps more to the point it's kinda like trying to explain to a non-fisherman about why a fly rod is sporting for a trout while using a bait casting rod with worms will catch just as many.

Maybe it's just that I can't help myself, but all of the 32 revolvers from 32 S&W (the short one) all the way up to 327 Fed Mag just turn my crank. Besides, with a K-22 and a K-38, there's a hole there to fill, and with 22 Semi-Autos, my Model 52 in 38 Spl and of course a few assorted 45s, there's a hole in my target auto array as well. If you want logic in a hobby talk to a chess player, I reject logic as irrational! :D

Froggie
 
I’m supposed to be in the dungeon casting Schuetzen bullets, so I came up here instead. I just thought I’d wake this thread up for our newer readers. I wondered whether any new information will come to light on the Model 41 conversion to 32 S&W Long Wad cutter.

Froggie
 
If you ever find out, please list all the information. I also like the 32 long, and even with gradually selling off most of my collection, I still have two that will handle the .32 long. I have about 3/4 of a 1000 round box of Speer HBWC's to load and shoot before those go. At my present rate that will be several years.
 
Atkinson & Marquart Ruger conversion to 32 wadcutter

For those who are confused, 32 wadcutter in a target grade semiauto pistol has long been the "Holy Grail" of Bullseye centerfire guns. Accurate, light recoil, close to their rimfire cousins, and fully competitive in American bullseye and UIT (International) competition.

I don't know about the S&W conversion, but Atkinson & Marquart Custom Rifles in Arizona did such a conversion on the Ruger MKI.
It is still straight blowback, so it uses a large weight added to the bolt. Total weight of the gun is 50 oz.

Attached is a photo of such a converted Ruger from George Nonte's book "Pistolsmithing".

Nowadays, there are several excellent 32 wadcutter target pistols. Besides the old Walther GSP-C, there is the incredible Pardini (available in 32 S&W wadcutter or 32 ACP). There was also the Erma 85, now discontinued. Matchguns, by Caesar Morini might be available in 32, and perhaps Benelli.
Sako made the fantastic all-steel Triace, that had conversion units for 22 LR, 22 Short (Int'l Rapid Fire), and 32 S&W wadcutter. You could buy that with a fitted attaché case complete with a nice tool kit and other accessories.

By the way, there is another important appeal to the 32 wadcutter target pistol. If you live in a tight gun control jurisdiction, buying a full kit with 32 & 22 conversion units only counts as one gun on a permit application. This is very important in many foreign countries.
Nonetheless, many American Bullseye shooters like the Marvel 22 conversion for their 1911, as it allows the same grip/trigger across the whole match.
 

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An evil laugh is heard from the dark recesses. I just knew I’d bring a few of my fellow 32 lovers out. I still think S&W should look long and hard at a Model 616, even if it had to come from the Custom Shop/Performance Center. As for a semi auto, there’s no physical reason the Model 41/46 couldn’t be made in 32 ACP or 32 S&W Long WC. When I’m named Chairman of the Board of S&W, I’ll decree the formation of a Skunk Works type shop within a shop where this kind of special arms can be produced for the discerning few. It could happen that way! :rolleyes:

Froggie
 
FWIW I wouldn't touch anything Custom Shop ? Performance Center nowadays . Sadly they're a mere shadow of what they once were . For a 32 semi-auto the Pardini would be hard to beat . Dave Wilson ( FC 60 ) on the Bullseye-L forum has done beaucoup work with the 32's ( S&W Long & ACP ) has made his own faster twist barrels for 50yds etc . Wealth of knowledge on the cartridges & how to wring the upmost accuracy from them . Many Euro pistols are made with ISU shooting at 25m & twist is slower than optimum for 50yds , just like for 38 spl wadcutters .
 
You missed the part about me being named Chairman and having authority to set up a real Custom Shop (or “Skunk Works”) to do the cutting edge stuff that only comes from small private shops now.
Froggie
 
boatbum101 said:
FWIW I wouldn't touch anything Custom Shop ? Performance Center nowadays . Sadly they're a mere shadow of what they once were . For a 32 semi-auto the Pardini would be hard to beat . Dave Wilson ( FC 60 ) on the Bullseye-L forum has done beaucoup work with the 32's ( S&W Long & ACP ) has made his own faster twist barrels for 50yds etc . Wealth of knowledge on the cartridges & how to wring the upmost accuracy from them . Many Euro pistols are made with ISU shooting at 25m & twist is slower than optimum for 50yds , just like for 38 spl wadcutters .
Click to expand...

Dave does great work. He is also on the Targettalk forum. He has documented his work quite well, showing load development and 50 yd machine rest groups. 10 shot groups from 1" to 1.5".
But, it has been a long, hard grueling process.

Besides the twist rate on many Euro pistols, another potential headache is groove diameter. Depending on manufacturer, you might find anything from .308" to .314". That sort of discrepancy would cause enough problems in, say, a .45 Long Colt. In the small .32 S&W it can be a catastrophe. Just trying to match reloading dies and bullets to bore and chamber can be a nightmare. When the "stars align", however, it pays off in rewarding dividends.
 
Sorry to get off on the Other Brand, but some years ago, a distributor got a large number of Colt Officers Model Target .32s from NIB to slightly used.
They were surplused by a state police that had bought them at the onset of WWII. Stories vary, some say they took what they could get as manufacturers went over to war production, some say a typo on the order got them .32s instead of .38s.

Pardini makes a target .32 ACP. XTPs are said to be very accurate and more reliable than SWL wadcutters.

An old article about a guy setting up his own idea of an ISU Rapid Fire short shooter mentioned that he got a bit of work crowning muzzles of European .22s and .32s to improve their accuracy for Americans who would need to shoot well at 50 yards instead of just 25 meters.
 
Back before Pardini offered a 32acp in their HP model, I shot with a US Army team shooter that had a Hammerli 280 .32 S&W that was converted to .32acp. Because I never heard of such a thing, I didn't pay too much attention to how the conversion was done. I shot with this guy many times and always remembered him filing the metal portions of a Hammerli 208s so his hand would fit better. After watching him aggressively file away on the Hammerli 208s, I didn't really want to know the details of the 32 S&W to apc conversion. But it turns out, he was on the right track.
 
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