Model19man
Member
Colt designed the Python so that no Smith & Wesson product was equivalent. It's marketing 101. There is not any.
Which S & W is comparable to Colt Python?
- Thread starter MartinSW41
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D1911
Member
CH4, here's my smith's card. He also does Couger conversions on Ruger Six series guns.
Rubone
Member
As to the original question I don't believe there is a S&W equivalent, as far as I'm concerned anything they made was better than a Python. When they were common and current and priced the same S&W still outsold them by a long distance, there were reasons for that. Not a Python fanboy as you may have guessed! And I detest the term wheelgun as well so there is that. Just my opinion so not worth much, and losing value over time as I'm far outnumbered by "experts".
413Maxwedge
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I was at the gun shop / gunsmith today to pick up my 686-6 (they installed new sights for me) and they had a new 4" Python. Side by side comparison - my 686 is a better looking, better feeling gun. I liked the Colt's hammer and grips, but nothing else about it was attractive to me.
My .02
My .02
lppd4
Member
I would buy a vintage 586/686 or a new Python
Hmmm
The smith I spoke to said the barrel shank on the pre 1991 Python barrels are the same diameter as the hole in the 686 frame, but they have different thread pitch’s. Not enough meat on the barrel to turn the threads off the barrel and rethread it. I see the barrel on the bottom Smolt is a 1991+, but the top is a pre 1991..
What’s the name and number of your guy?
S&W L frame .500 x 36
Python barrel 1991+ .500 x 36
Python barrel pre 1991 .500 x 32
NO L frames are .562 as are Python frames. You are correct as to the pitch change which was from 32 to 36 and you can also tell which is which because the early 32 pitch guns had 2 pins holding the front sight and the later 36 pitch ones only have a single pin
IF you take a long Python barrel you can stick it on a N frame by turning the shoulder back past the first slot in the rib at .670 and threading it to 36. You have to recut the slot for the ejector rod, But even when you stick a python barrel on a K or L frame the original slot needs opened up because the Smith rod is way fatter than the spindly Colt ones
An 8" Python barrel that was bored to 45 that I cut to 5" from the rear and set up to go on an N frame
A Python barrel on a 10-7 frame that I milled for rear sights and instaslled a recessed model 19 cylinder in.
J Frames are .500-36
K Frames are .540-36
L Frames are .563-36
N frames are .670-36
I currently have a bored out 44 Anaconda barrel in my shop I lined with a piece of turned down Ruger Redhawk barrel to make it into a 5" 45 colt barrel for an N frame
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NO L frames are .562 as are Python frames. You are correct as to the pitch change which was from 32 to 36 and you can also tell which is which because the early 32 pitch guns had 2 pins holding the front sight and the later 36 pitch ones only have a single pin
IF you take a long Python barrel you can stick it on a N frame by turning the shoulder back past the first slot in the rib at .670 and threading it to 36. You have to recut the slot for the ejector rod, But even when you stick a python barrel on a K or L frame the original slot needs opened up because the Smith rod is way fatter than the spindly Colt ones
An 8" Python barrel that was bored to 45 that I cut to 5" from the rear and set up to go on an N frame
A Python barrel on a 10-7 frame that I milled for rear sights and instaslled a recessed model 19 cylinder in.
J Frames are .500-36
K Frames are .540-36
L Frames are .563-36
N frames are .670-36
I currently have a bored out 44 Anaconda barrel in my shop I lined with a piece of turned down Ruger Redhawk barrel to make it into a 5" 45 colt barrel for an N frame
Thanks with the great 411 and corrections on the dimensions. So to confirm it’s not possible to use a 2 pin barrel on an L frame without setting the shoulder back. Guess I’ll look for a 1 pin barrel. Using a 2.5” 66 leaves a small step between frame and barrel rib, which bugs me.
When comparing, you have to compare top of the line with top of the line. That would be the Model 27 with the Python.
6" 27-2
6" Python:
Yes, I know that the Python frame and full underlug are more like the 586 and 686 L frames, but for the pre-1982 era, it would have been comparing the Model 27 with the Python. They are Both great guns - classic revolvers. I have no experience shooting the Pythons, and I have heard that they are a bit more temperamental in getting the trigger pull just right, but they sure are pretty guns. I HAVE shot many many Model 27s (and their predecessors). They are my favorite S&W Magnum and I have some with outstanding triggers - I love them.
Good luck,
I have never personally installed a Python barrel on a L frame. My only L frames are a 696 no dash, a 396 and a 296. By the way the 296, 396 and 69s run a sleeve inside a shroud and use .636-36 threads. But a one pin 36 to the inch Python barrel should screw on a 586 or 686 frame. You may still need to adjust the back shoulder a bit to get the front sight to time at 12'00 when it torques up. But, sometimes you need to do that when installing a S&W barrel on a S&W frame. Also need too adjust barrel shank length and recut the forcing cone. Plus. open up the slot for ejector rod and install ball detent lock in the yoke.
All it takes is a few machine tools and time or just a wad of money. I have more time and machine tools than money.
AS far as accuracy goes I am not convienced you gain anything.
Here is a group from the model 15 with the 6" Python barrel and a recessed 357 cylinder, using a machine rest
and here are groups from some other K frames with the same ammo
All it takes is a few machine tools and time or just a wad of money. I have more time and machine tools than money.
AS far as accuracy goes I am not convienced you gain anything.
Here is a group from the model 15 with the 6" Python barrel and a recessed 357 cylinder, using a machine rest
and here are groups from some other K frames with the same ammo
I just purchased a brand new Colt Python 4.25 barrel in blue. The price tag is not pretty but the gun sure is. I could not locate one flaw on the gun. Colt/CZ did a very nice job with the blueing. The action on it is very smooth as well. It's a very nice gun. FWIW.
You are 100% correct, I choose not to believe statements from 1 or 10 or even 100 anonymous internet voices that Colt Python's fall out of timing quickly, because that has not been my experience and I trust my personal experience more
Now when you are talking about shooters who also happen to be gunsmiths I take those reports far more seriously
I am certain that folks who had problems with their pythons were told by their gunsmiths they were out of time. Those people naturally believed what their gunsmith was telling them and that is why they repeat it. But we don't know what actually went wrong nor what the actual fix was
A single person's gun going out of time and a gunsmith telling him it's an epidemic problem does not make it a fact, not even 10 or more reports make it epidemic. Many 100s of thousands of Pythons were produced over the decades. The actual best guesstimate is that the number is somewhere between 500,000 and 750,000. And of course that number grows larger every year
One fact is that the Florida Highway Patrol began issuing nickel plated 4" Pythons back in the 1960s
Another fact is that in the mid 1980s the Florida Highway Patrol began taking deliveries on Pythons finished in ultimate stainless
Another fact is that only 50 of the BSS Pythons were delivered before the switch to the Beretta 92
Unfortunately I do not know the fact as to how many Pythons the Patrol actually had over the years. It was more than a few 100 but less than a 1000
Obviously there are some State Troopers that hardly shoot at all, but it is also a fact that many of the State Troopers used to shoot PPC matches during that time frame and naturally they used their duty Python
The point that is obviously being made here is that I'm not the only person I know of who's put more than 30,000 rounds through a couple of Colt Pythons
I only recall a couple of the Pythons going out of time but as I stated above I am not sure of that total sample size.
We have a choice between Colt, Smith and Wesson, and Ruger for the same reason that we have a choice between GM, Ford and Mopar
Different people will choose to own different things and it does not necessarily have anything to do with one thing being better than another
Hmmmm? 30,000 rds.........Do you have that number in a documented ledger........OR.......Is it just a mental number?.....That # means you would have to at least shoot 1 box through it every week for 50 years
When you compare a Python overall to a S & W, it's no contest. I'll take the Smith & Wesson every time. The already-mentioned issues, which actually are widespread because the lockwork design causes excessive wear, drags it down in the maintenance and reliability columns. (I had one back in the late 1970s, and of course, it went out of time. Cost me $40 to get it fixed, a lot for me back then. Sold it as soon as the work was done.) After all, when they brought it back, the first thing they did was redesign the inside.
I can't comment on the "new Python" because I haven't touched one yet. I will say I'd like to get one if they weren't $1400....too rich for my blood.
So now that we understand in addition to not being able to recognize a fact, you also do not know how to use a calculator
Shooting a single box of ammunition every week would eat up thirty thousand rounds in under 12 years
Old Corp
Member
Got my first-ever Python this past year, a c.1970's 4". No box, a slight blem here and there. Been a S&W guy for over 45 years. Have a plethora of K frames and N frames, but have never put an L frame in the mix.
So, the Python is my stand-in L frame
My take on the legacy Python is that it's a top notch revolver. Sandbagging, and shooting it at 25 yards I found it to be very accurate with lots of different .38 and .357 loads. The SA trigger is superb.
I cannot get really used to the stacking DA. Guess I've spent too many years behind the backstraps of S&W's.
Also found I did not care for the OE rear adjustable sight. No 'clicks', and with magnum ammo, didn't want to stay where I'd adjusted it to.
I ordered and installed a 'Kensight' adjustable rear and it's a big improvement. (So, I've effectively killed it's collectability.....)
I bought the gun just to experience 'having/shooting a Python'. As a teen working at a LGS in the early-to-mid 70's, I recall standing behind the big, long glass pistol counter, filled mostly with revolvers and looking down at the new Pythons laid out on the red felt covering the glass shelves. Don't recall the exact price at the time, but to me it may as well have been about $14k
And now, at ~66, I have one!
It will not 'replace' any of my Smiths, not anymore so than another underdog I enjoy, a Ruger SS Security Six, but still glad I got a chance to get one.
It'll be with me in the woods this Fall, and have worked up a good hunting load for it. Just need some deer cooperation.
So, the Python is my stand-in L frame
My take on the legacy Python is that it's a top notch revolver. Sandbagging, and shooting it at 25 yards I found it to be very accurate with lots of different .38 and .357 loads. The SA trigger is superb.
I cannot get really used to the stacking DA. Guess I've spent too many years behind the backstraps of S&W's.
Also found I did not care for the OE rear adjustable sight. No 'clicks', and with magnum ammo, didn't want to stay where I'd adjusted it to.
I ordered and installed a 'Kensight' adjustable rear and it's a big improvement. (So, I've effectively killed it's collectability.....)
I bought the gun just to experience 'having/shooting a Python'. As a teen working at a LGS in the early-to-mid 70's, I recall standing behind the big, long glass pistol counter, filled mostly with revolvers and looking down at the new Pythons laid out on the red felt covering the glass shelves. Don't recall the exact price at the time, but to me it may as well have been about $14k
And now, at ~66, I have one!
It will not 'replace' any of my Smiths, not anymore so than another underdog I enjoy, a Ruger SS Security Six, but still glad I got a chance to get one.
It'll be with me in the woods this Fall, and have worked up a good hunting load for it. Just need some deer cooperation.
Attachments
First of all the lines and aestetics of the Python are something that frankly are unsurpassed. Nothing an owner or collector can do anything about, beauty is of course subjective but few would argue that the Python is not about as pretty a DA revolver gets.
As for mechanics the 586 and 686 can be easily slicked up to a degree that will out perform the Python. Fitted up with a competition hand to improve timing or carry-up, a modified main spring to level out the DA pull, lighter rebound spring, some light alterations here and there and a quality trigger job and the 586/686’s are a well balanced fine competition performer that becomes a full click or two beyond the Python’s capabilities.
Because the two revolvers, Colt vs S&W are completely different designs and mechanisms the trigger pulls are different animals. The Colt triggers are soft or easy pull starting then load up heavier to break while S&W’s are opposite, that is, hard start then lighter break. You shoot Colts for a long time it’s hard to get used to the S&W triggers as they seem to break too quickly in the final stage. But S&W shooters can usually adapt to a heavier final pull of the Colts.
Rick
As for mechanics the 586 and 686 can be easily slicked up to a degree that will out perform the Python. Fitted up with a competition hand to improve timing or carry-up, a modified main spring to level out the DA pull, lighter rebound spring, some light alterations here and there and a quality trigger job and the 586/686’s are a well balanced fine competition performer that becomes a full click or two beyond the Python’s capabilities.
Because the two revolvers, Colt vs S&W are completely different designs and mechanisms the trigger pulls are different animals. The Colt triggers are soft or easy pull starting then load up heavier to break while S&W’s are opposite, that is, hard start then lighter break. You shoot Colts for a long time it’s hard to get used to the S&W triggers as they seem to break too quickly in the final stage. But S&W shooters can usually adapt to a heavier final pull of the Colts.
Rick
11.54 years according to my calculator. Now the question remains is how many is "several" from the statement "None of mine have ever had timing issues and several of them have well over 30,000 rounds through them"
If 3, then the figure of 50 rounds a week stretches out to 34.5 years while 4 would stretch it out to 46 years. Still not 50, but a whole lot of shooting none the less! I hope for your hand's sake, many of them were 38's or even wadcutters!
The only S&W that beats a new Python today is a Manurhin MR73.The MR73 is based on the S&W action.
I used to sell S&W handguns in the 70'ies and 80'ies. Todays S&W revolvers are terrible. A couple of months ago was able to go through a local shop's stock of about 25 new 686s. 50% of them were out of time. This included all types from Competitor to 686+ with different barrel lengths.
I live in Europe and here a 686 Competitor cost the same as a MR73. A new Python cost $500 less.
I used to sell S&W handguns in the 70'ies and 80'ies. Todays S&W revolvers are terrible. A couple of months ago was able to go through a local shop's stock of about 25 new 686s. 50% of them were out of time. This included all types from Competitor to 686+ with different barrel lengths.
I live in Europe and here a 686 Competitor cost the same as a MR73. A new Python cost $500 less.
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I read this statement "I'm not the only person I know of who's put more than 30,000 rounds through a couple of Colt Pythons" as putting 30,000 rounds through a couple (2) Pythons. So 15,000 round per gun.
While I am not a Colt fan, I have no doubt you will burn through more money than the gun is worth long before you wear it out. Although the mechanisms are some what different the main wear is the hand on the ratchet and the cylinder stop both in its window and its interaction with the trigger. Why would those points wear worse on a Colt than a Smith?
Yes it has some leaf spring where Smith has coils, but a good spring last a long time. Now days 30,000 primes would pay for a Python. LOL
While I am not a Colt fan, I have no doubt you will burn through more money than the gun is worth long before you wear it out. Although the mechanisms are some what different the main wear is the hand on the ratchet and the cylinder stop both in its window and its interaction with the trigger. Why would those points wear worse on a Colt than a Smith?
Yes it has some leaf spring where Smith has coils, but a good spring last a long time. Now days 30,000 primes would pay for a Python. LOL
Tom,11.54 years according to my calculator. Now the question remains is how many is "several" from the statement "None of mine have ever had timing issues and several of them have well over 30,000 rounds through them"
If 3, then the figure of 50 rounds a week stretches out to 34.5 years while 4 would stretch it out to 46 years. Still not 50, but a whole lot of shooting none the less! I hope for your hand's sake, many of them were 38's or even wadcutters!
I have put in excess of 30,000 rounds each through 2 of my Pythons.
I have owned my oldest python for just about 35 years now. I have had several others for more than 20 years
When I was shooting matches in the late 70s and on into the 80s I was busting caps on 200 - 500 rounds a day and that was shooting five to six days a week
Yes, I have thrown a lot of lead down range over the decades.
At 200 rds a day 5 days a week it would only take 30 weeks to burn up 30,000 rds. I fondly remember cheap primers and powder
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