Elmer Keith's Prototype .44 Magnum Ammunition and More!!

Originally posted by Doc44:
Chuck...Glad to see this post received a good response. The ammunition development is often overlooked in favor of the guns and one is no good without the other.

In developing the 44 Magnum cartridge (1954-1955), Remington tested three different types of powder and nine different bullet designs before deciding on the 240 grain gas-checked lead bullet. Even with the gas check, factory loads by Remington or Winchester leaded the barrel that had be be cleaned thoroughly after each shooting session (This was still true in the late 60s when I started shooting the 44 Magnum. I always shot jacketed soft points when possible).

Also Chuck, great photos. Your article for the S&WCA Journal should be a good one.

Bill

Bill, thanks. I appreciate any bit of knowledge on this subject that you guys/gals can share. You know me better than anyone and understand that I want to be as factual as possible, but being a historian rather than a scientist, it just takes me more effort to get to the point sometimes. I'm going to keep after the Remington guys to see what else they can come up with concerning the development of the .44 magnum. Unfortunately, much of the early paperwork was literally thrown out years ago and I think we're lucky to have left what we do have. I'm still working at the picture taking and still have a ways to go to get caught up with you
icon_smile.gif
 
Originally posted by Gun 4 Fun:
What an outstanding and facinating article. Thank you sir. It is interesting to me also in the fact that I am a huge follower of Brian Pearces' writings, and to see that he is involved in this is a pleasure. I have correspondence here, from him, received shortly before he came into possesion of the white box.

What would that box be worth as well as the value of the gun?
Where will the SWCA be held at in Michigan (my home state), and do you have to be a member to go. How do you join?

Gun 4 Fun, Brian is a nice fellow and an excellent writer. T Star hit the nail on the head in characterizing him as the writer most like Elmer Keith that we have today. It is also fortunate that Brian was a personal friend of Keith's and somewhat of an understudy when beginning his own writing career.

I can't really put a price tag on either the gun or the early ammunition. I know what they cost me, but value is in large part based upon how badly someone wants an item and is willing to pay for it. The old laws of supply and demand certainly come into play as well. There are three known boxes of the white box ammo and two of the paper label ammo that have been reported. One would hope that with 15000 rounds between both that were produced in Jan, 1956, which equates to 300 boxes, more than 5 boxes are still out there to be discovered. I never hit a gun show that I don't keep my eyes open for another one. You might get lucky and find one for $50.00; unfortunately, that wasn't the case with my obtaining the ones that I own.
icon_smile.gif
First year May-December pre-29s are now running between 3000-4000 depending on condition, condition, condition, and if they have original type box/tools. Expect to pay 500-1000 more for an April gun and 2-3 times this for Feb-March shipped guns. This is simply because fewer guns were manufactured/shipped in the first 4 months than in the last 8. There were only 5 .44 Magnums shipped in January, 1956, and we are aware of the location of 3 of those. I would expect to pay a substantial amount for any one of those guns, regardles condition, especially S130927, the gun sent to Remington in December, 1955, and then resold to Rex Firearms in NYC in late February, 1956. If you look at a June 1956 American Rifleman and Rex's ad in the back, you are probably looking at S130927 after it was engraved. To me, that gun is the Grail 44 Magnum.

The S&WCA meeting this year will be in Troy, Michigan. You either have to be a member or a pre-approved guest of a member to attend. Contact me at my Forum email address and I'll give you further details on how to join the S&WCA. If a person wants to really learn the nuts and bolts about S&W from individuals involved in its history for more than 50 years in some cases, the price of admission is cheap considering what you get in return.
Regards
Chuck
 
I would think that those 5 boxes represent a pretty good survival rate considering that for most of the time it existed it would be just more ammo to most people. It's great that it's well documented and that you have it to keep safe now. As for the stocks pictured I've seen others modified in a similar way, the last were a couple of NIB 19-3s that the owner said were factory and had been done for a PD order, I certainly don't know but it sure is interesting stuff. Thanks for the post and the great "as always" pictures. I look forward to you article.

Keith
 
I just noticed, on the dust jacket of the SCSW III, the pictured 44 Magnum has a set of similarly relieved stocks. Except these were relieved on the right panel.
 
Originally posted by MKT:
I just noticed, on the dust jacket of the SCSW III, the pictured 44 Magnum has a set of similarly relieved stocks. Except these were relieved on the right panel.


I've been thinking about those stocks. I've seen old S&W target stocks that weren't relieved at all. The "football" relief came later.

So, those early grips may have been relieved experimentally at the factory, or by the guns' owners.

The heavy recoil would have induced owners to get their thumbs down out of the way of the recoiling cylinder release. Don't believe Askins's old crack about anyone not enjoying the kick of a .44 Magnum as having "lace on their panties". I think he aimed that remark at Gen. Hatcher. But many shooters find the .44 Magnum beyond their recoil tolerance. For me, it is at the limit, and I seldom want to fire a whole box at one range session.

It is a very accurate load in skilled hands, and I was astounded to find how well it shoots, to even extended yardage. I once saw Elmer Keith fire one at a target 200 yards distant, and he hit it well, despite being then in his late 70's!

T-Star
 
Great post and historical research. I can't wait to meet you folks at the Michigan Show.
I would urge anyone who is serious about the historical aspects of the older S&Ws to join the SWCA. You just can't get this kind of knowledge anywhere else.
 
From the 20's through into the 60's, being Gun Editor at Outdoor Life was THE job that said you were the best, most knowledgeable gun writer around. Keith wanted it very much, and felt that his decades of guiding and writing made him by far the best candidate, in spite of his lack of education and poor grammar. When they gave the job to O'Connor, a college English professor who was by comparison a fairly new part time writer and not very experienced hunter; Keith was EXTREMELY upset and never forgave O'Connor.
 
Originally posted by CMcDermott:
From the 20's through into the 60's, being Gun Editor at Outdoor Life was THE job that said you were the best, most knowledgeable gun writer around. Keith wanted it very much, and felt that his decades of guiding and writing made him by far the best candidate, in spite of his lack of education and poor grammar. When they gave the job to O'Connor, a college English professor who was by comparison a fairly new part time writer and not very experienced hunter; Keith was EXTREMELY upset and never forgave O'Connor.

I think this is correct. But Jack had far superior communications skills and a gentleman's slant on hunting that caused even journalists to admit that he was the dean of gun writers. I think he was the ONLY gun writer to ever merit an obituary in the mainstream press!

Let me tell you a little secret that I learned while writing a gun column for a big city newspaper. Even the Outdoor Editor, to whom I sold my work, sneered at "gun writers" and clearly held them in contempt. He had been a football writer, tagged for the Outdoor job for some reason.

Well, one day, Elmer Keith came to town. Made a speech one night at a major hotel and shot for us with a new .44 Magnum on the Winchester range the next day. The Outdoor Editor couldn't be bothered to go cover him, and sent me and my (then) wife. We enjoyed it enormously.

But at the range, a TV station had sent a young black reporter, who had no idea at all who Keith was, or why he should be on TV. Hearing Elmer speak about hunting with a revolver, he expressed amazement that anyone would hunt with a weapon that this fellow knew only from its high crime use in the big city areas of the country. He was in a state of cultural disbelief.

I tried to fill him in on who Elmer was and his accomplishments, but he was lukewarm. I think he shot some footage, but don't recall that it made the evening news. Keith's visit did get a nice article on the Outdoors page of the leading newspaper...written by me. No one else there gave a damn!

The Outdoor Editor was baffled that I should be able to recite Elmer's famed handload for the .44 Magnum. Why would anyone need or want to remember something like that?! That editor occasionally went duck hunting with a shotgun. That was about the extent of his involvement with firearms. I'll leave it to you to guess how much his peers thought about guns in anything but a crime sense...

Now, Outdoor Life was run by a competent professional editor. The man would have had nightmares correcting Elmer's awful prose. Even his personal letters looked like something typed by a child not doing well in English class.

Faced with that choice, Jack was the hands-down winner to be the prestigious shooting editor of a magazine that wanted to be taken seriously, writing for an editor who needed to be able to respect his scribes for their journalism skill. I think Bill Rae and Jack O'Connor clicked together much better than any other applicants for the job, and Jack was writing then about desert game in the SW, a novel twist. He wrote well, had a wry sense of humor, and eventually, became THE gun writer for hunting rifle buffs. He also dealt very well with shotguns. OL was a hunter's magazine. It didn't have much need for handgun coverage.Elmer's material went better in the American Rifleman, which drew more hardcore gun nuts, and later, he did well at Guns, mainly because of his fame from AR and his contributions to the industry.

Bob Petersen liked him, admired him for his very real talents, and hired him at a good rate for the work. And he took care of him, even after he had his stroke and was unable to write.

I think Petersen was being humane, but also harbored a hope that Keith would recover and be able to write again. I'm sure that Petersen knew that Elmer's name sold magazines to real gun buff buyers.

But at Outdoor Life or at Gun Digest, Elmer would have been out of place as a senior editor. He simply never cared to learn good writing and editing skills. And that is as important as having good background knowledge of the subject.

One reason why many conventional sportswriters have ridiculed gun writers is that they tend to be "peacocks" with limited literary skills. There are exceptions, like John Wootters. He knew his way around a typewriter (and a camera!)as well as he knew his facts. He also had a lot of practical experience. Bill Jordan once told me that Wootters was a true wordsmith, while he (Jordan) was just a shooter who wrote some on the side. (He was too modest, unusual in a gun writer.
icon_wink.gif
)

Look at today's gun writers. Most are chest-beaters who open many paragraphs with personal pronouns. This is in conflict with what journalism schools teach: the use of the impersonal approach to writing. Recall, they are training reporters and editors, not personal account Johnnies. (Yes, the writer in a gun or hunting magazine does need to be able to relate his personal experiences, to establish his expertise. But that goes over the heads of his more "elite" journalism peers. Most gunnies are vain, somewhat rustic men, often looking for freebies and ad dollars as much as they seek to inform. I understand that one well known shotgun writer was so upset with how he shot with a borrowed gun that he wrapped it around a tree when he was embarrassed that he didn't shoot it well. How would that look to a "professional" journalist?

Some gun writers might say in response, How does it look to the public to slant the news along political lines, or to have affairs with the people whose activities you're covering in, say, Iraq? (Yes, I mean a certain CBS newsbabe whose name you've heard many times.)

Regardless of which is worse, hokey good ol' boyism on one hand, or deliberately manipulating the news to favor a particular candidate or political view? I guarantee you, those in the latter camp disregard the sty in their eye to ridicule the gun writers!

Jack O'Connor at least had been a college prof and had gotten an article or two in "slick" mainstream journals, sometimes to the jealousy of his teaching peers. He founded the Journalism program at his AZ university. He was a socialite of sorts, who hunted with royalty in exotic places. He was the easy choice to be at Outdoor Life. And he could answer reader mail without making his publisher look like a yokel. I'm sure that was an important consideration in selecting him as Outdoor Life's longtime gun editor and in him doing so well at, "Petersen's Hunting" after he retired from OL. His books were literate and droll, often wry. It's easy to see why he was popular across the whole spectrum of those who read gun and hunting magazines.

Askins and Keith had their reasons to resent him, but I think OL made the right choice for that position. This does NOT mean that Keith and Askins, Jr. weren't also great gun writers. But some of their personal qualities (I'm truly trying to be delicate here) did not lend them to that particular job. Askins, at least, could spell, and had a literary style that was full of vitamins. I actually enjoyed his stories, a lot.

I know why he embarrassed some editors later in his career, but he was okay, if a little pompous, in my very limited dealings with him.

By the way, some gun writers have tipped the bottle to their lips a little too often. I won't name any names, but O'Connor held his liquor better than some. That would also have been a consideration for that job, where he had to represent OL at trade and other functions.

T-Star
 
I’ve read both Elmer Keith’s and Jack O’Connor’s autobiographies, Hell, I was There! and Horse and Buggy West - A Boyhood on the Last Frontier, respectively, although I guess the latter only covers O’Connor’s growing up in Arizona, if memory serves.

I like both books a lot, and there is no question that O’Connor is the much – much – more polished writer. But I prefer Keith’s book.

Fractured grammar and all, Keith’s book is a truly wonderful and engaging account of his life, with many, many vignettes that are memorable. I assume that his editors decided not to edit his writing, or, if they did, made a conscious decision not to edit it too much. It is a lively, fun read, fractured language warts and all. Actually, I think the warts add to its charm considerably!
 
I think my heart just fluttered a bit. What a fitting piece of firearms history.
 
Fantastic, Chuck. I look forward to your article in the S&WCA Journal.

In reference to your "Holy Grail" S130927, I became quite excited as a young cub collector when I acquired S130922. My lottery jackpot fizzled out, however, when I learned that serial numbers weren't shipped sequentially, and that my holy grail was shipped on May 17, 1956.

Best regards,

Jim
 
Originally posted by SRT:
Fantastic, Chuck. I look forward to your article in the S&WCA Journal.

In reference to your "Holy Grail" S130927, I became quite excited as a young cub collector when I acquired S130922. My lottery jackpot fizzled out, however, when I learned that serial numbers weren't shipped sequentially, and that my holy grail was shipped on May 17, 1956.

Best regards,

Jim

Jim, I've had that same feeling each time a S130XXX pre-29 surfaces. I have one, S130948 that didn't ship until the end of August, '56. I thought at the time that it was surely at least a Feb/March shipped gun. However when 'the letter' came back, I was surprised to say the least of it's late shipping date. But, the fun is in the chase they say.
Happy New Year
Chuck
 
Chuck, you probably already know this, but in the 1957 Gun Digest, Col Hatcher spoke briefly of the new revolver. He also stated "The powder charge taken from sample cartridges, weighed 22 grains and had the same grain size and general appearance as Hercules #2400 powder." He earlier referred to the ammo as "the new 44 Remington magnum."

In the same issue Col Askins reviews the gun and the article is titled "A Man's Sixgun." The lace panties quote is in this article.
 
Chuck:
While thumbing thru some Amer. Rifleman mags before throwing them out, I came upon one of Wiley Clapp's articles from June '06 about the Ruger .44 Flat Top. He mentions in there that a friend of Bill Ruger had stopped by in '55 with 5 fired cartridge cases picked up from a scrap heap in Bridgeport. Remington with .44 Magnum on the headstamp. Clapp states that Ruger almost beat 'the other company' to the punch of marketing a .44 mag. Probably well-known to you and others but it was the first time I had heard the story.
Ed
 
Ed, thanks for the reference. I had heard this story before but it came from Herb Glass who lived near me here in NY before he passed away. He told me that Bill Ruger actually brought over a couple of the 44 Ruger prototypes and they both blasted away on Glass' backyard range. He told me they used some of the early Remington ammo that S&W didn't get.
icon_smile.gif

Chuck
 
Chuck,

Great info. I look forward to the Journal.

Regarding the feud between Keith and O'Connor, I really enjoyed them both, but I seemed to relate more to O'Connor for some reason and I think I still have all of his books. I think that his writings had more to do with the popularity of the .270 than any other factor. I also thought it was great that his wife. Eleanor, would go hunting with him. There is no question that Elmer and Jack had enough ego for any ten men!

I suspect that my infatuation with Jack's writings had to do with one single point in my developing firearm knowledge. As a young boy I had just inherited my grandfather's Colt SAA in .38-40. I hungered for knowledge about it and I wrote O'Connor at Outdoor Life with the serial number. He, very graciously, answered me back and told me how to differentiate between the black powder frame and the smokeless powder frame and assured me that it would be safe for me to shoot...which I did for many years. Sure wish I had that letter to keep in my safe with that old Colt.

Bob
 
Back
Top