Need of advice on a good anti-dog round

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jwist

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My wife, I and a 8 month old little girl walk after work and there are some BIG dogs including pit bulls. I usually carry my 3 inch sp-101 with me as a CCW. I am also giving real serious though to my model 19-4 with a 4 inch barrel. What self defense ammo would you recommend? I currently have 158 grain Remington LSWCHP-+P. It is good in my model 19 that I keep on my night stand,(wife keeps same load in the SP on here side of the bed).
Thanks
 
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I think that FBI load you're using in your SP-101 would put the lights out on any canine around.
 
I have had to shoot a few dogs...

If/when you shoot a dog, be prepared to shoot more than once.

Also be prepared to deal with the owner.

I would carry a few extra speed loaders.
 
I think your current load will work fine; for what its worth I've shot a couple of coyotes with Speer's 135gr +P Gold Dot, in both cases the I hit the front shoulders, immobilizing the coyotes, and had to finish them off with a round to the head. Around here coyotes seldom run more than 45-50 pounds, a rottie or pitbull could go twice that and I guess may be more difficult to knock down.
 
Any round that will kill a man will kill a dog, if you hit it in the right place. I wouldn't consider 158 grain HP .38's too small for the job.
 
Heart/Lung shot with a 22LR works every time...
CNS up high, with about anything, is a show stopper.
As usual - It's more a matter of shot placement.
If confronted with a pack of dogs you are better off seriously wounding one of the dogs than trying to kill as many as you can. The pack will usually go after the cripple and let you go on your way.
 
I've been involved in or privy to several dog shootings. They've all been bigger aggressive dogs. None went down with one round except those hit with .223's or buckshot. After seeing one large pit take four .45 Black Talons (all of which expanded beautifully and were well-placed), I never tell anyone that a certain round "will" work. You never know. The FBI load is a decent round for a .38 but I would lean more towards a DPX if I was stuck with that caliber. NE is right. Expect to spend your entire cylinder on the job.
 
enidpd804 said:
I've been involved in or privy to several dog shootings. They've all been bigger aggressive dogs. None went down with one round.
Click to expand...
Me too, at least as far as HANDGUN rounds from 9mm and/or .38 Spcl. GDHP +P. The moral of the story so far as I can tell is head shots have a disturbing tendendcy to bounce of the skull of a dog (kind of shaped like modern tanks), and body shots may cause mortal wounds but the dog may have lethal fight left in him/her before dying. So learn where a dog's vitals are and try for a shot there. Unfortunately, a charging dog usually presents very little flank to aim at, if any. Carry lots of ammo.

I have heard stories of bright flashlights and gun lasers scaring off interested wildlife but have no first hand experience. Maybe a gun equipped with both would be helpful, or carry a gun and a bright light. Maybe a baton or an expandable baton would be helpful.

I have heard that OC spray and mace are relatively useless due to the physiology of dogs' eyes (few or no tear ducts for agent infiltration).

As a last resort, a hard kick to the neck or chest has been known to incapacitate (sometimes even kill) dogs, but this is hearsay too.

Congrats on the baby.
 
I've found the OC spray to be very effective on dogs. It's one of the reasons we repalced our "tear gas" or "mace" with OC spray. I'ts the CN and CS gasses (aka: tear gas) that didn't work on animals but seemed to work too well on the person deploying them. :rolleyes:

OC Spray would be my first choice. I've OC'd countless dogs over the years and it's worked everytime, including on the pit bull breed that seemed very common in the areas where I worked. What was nice about it is that the effect was immediate and continuing.

The dog shoots using handgun rounds, that I saw many times over the years, sometimes took more than one shot to the violently aggressive dog. The dog was moving quickly and sometimes (not all times) continued his attack after the first shot. It sometimes took multiple pistol shots to put him down. Either the first shot missed, only grazed the animal, bounced off the skull of the dog or was just ineffective.

Then you have to deal with the investigative aftermath of firing the weapon in your town. However, the OC was immediately effective on the animal and then you can just walk away from the area.

What was nice was the action of pulling the OC canister out often caused the dog to back off. They can smell very well and the odor apparently meant something to those dogs. I would bet that the dogs who backed off had been OC'd sometime in the past :rolleyes: and didn't want to go through the effects for a second time. ;)

I would keep the handgun in concealed reserve to protect myself from the owner if they come out ranting and raving and then become a threat to life or great bodily injury. If someone is irresponsible enought to have an aggressive dog running free, they're likely to be just as irresponsible and aggressive. Of course, the OC can remain an effective tool with them too, before they cross the lethal/great bodily injury line.

As for the ammo choice for dogs, I wouldn't over-think it. Shot placement and performance under stressful conditions is more important. Any premium defensive round with decent penetration would do for me.

dog-11.gif
 
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I agree with the post on OC and no shoot. When I teach I say - "You can shoot a man, but not man's best friend." The public stigma and legal consequences suggest shooting a dog is not the best idea. I carry large OC and it has worked, even on large Akita, and I have used a collapsible baton on smaller dogs to keep them off of me and my dogs. I have never had to draw on a dog or owner, a verbal warning once (threat to shoot the dog) sufficed to have one owner retrieve their dog faster. All that said, a single bite from a large dog in a bad place (artery/vein) can cause shock rather quickly. Accordingly, a threat of a large aggressive dog whose owner is not present and which cannot be stopped before biting with lesser force is a deadly force encounter.
 
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I don't believe in shooting dogs unless they directly attack me or someone else.

To shoot them because of barking or annoying me is wrong, there are other legal ways to handle that.
 
IMHO, you'd be better served (at least initially) with carrying a USPS rated OC animal repellent spray. You can walk with it held in your hand, at the ready without getting anyone excited, (something that you couldn't do with the SP101 or M19-4) and be able to readily respond to a sudden attack.

Remember, a sudden attack/charge will most likely come at a relatively short range... could you respond that quickly in drawing, targeting and firing for effect against a quickly moving dog(s)?

Many of the repellent sprays have a range of 10 feet or more, if the blast of OC doesn't stem the attack, it just might buy you more time to get the wife with the child running away from the encounter and/or getting your CCW into deployment.

Here's the USPS Pamphlet issued to their carriers on the subject, it might have some interesting info for you regarding repellent.
 
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With all due respect, if I wanted to use some kind of pepper spray instead of a GUN I would be on the "USPS rated OC animal repellant spray" forum instead of the S&W forum :D
 
I don't know where the OP walks but out here in the backwoods we have this problem with wild dogs,you don't see them everyday but when you do you'd better be ready to shoot!

In my nearly twenty years in WV I've had to deal with dogs several times,a couple who made faces at me in the woods and many who came in my yard and chased my cats.

Handguns don't work so good with FMJ,ask how I know,HP is better-of course I'm a mile from the nearest house so I usually grab the AR or shotgun.

And for the record none of the dogs I've sent to hell haven't had collars those mutts will run like you've set them on fire if you shoot over their head.

If I was the OP I'd carry full power .357 with some kind of JSP or JHP in the 158+gr class.
 
Remington .357 125 gr. SJHP (R357M1), when you care enough to send the very best. Woodchucks are tough critters and they lock up like they've been struck by lightning. That includes the 35 lb. monster I killed two years ago.
 
Pepper spray works good first, plus the dog will usually leave, flipping over backwards. . back it up w/HP. This way you show the escalation of force, if the police are called. pepper foam for bears works great, too.
 
I recently bought some Barnes XPB and I'm very impressed by the design and profile of this bullet. The hollow cavity is very large and sharp and I'd expect it to bite into heavy bone at any angle and not glance off the skull. Loaded to sufficient velocity, it should also solve the problem of underpenetration. Beautifully mushroomed slugs are of little value if they don't penetrate.

Dave Sinko
 
To answer some of the questions I carry police grade pepper spray, got it from a detective at my agency. I do not want to have to shoot a dog I love K-9s (and I help prosecute animal crulity cases). My fire arm is my weapon of LAST resort for all kinds of reasons not the least of which is we walk in a typical subdivision of track homes. I do not want to explain to the local PD why my round missed\over penitrated and hit some innocent person in their home. That being said, if I have to shoot to protect my life or my family I want the most effective round with the greatest chance of staying in the dog and stopping the attack. And I know there are no absolutes when it comes to this I am just trying to find the best balance of stopping power (for lack of a better term) and lest chance of overpenitration.
 
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