It seams to be that out of an airweight snub, +p .38 specials might not be worth the ballistic gain. First, does anyone carry regular .38's in their snubbies, and if so, what do you think is the best type?

Yea I also want to know as I'm kind of getting tired of my +p out of my J-frame too.

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Don't look, reload and shoot!

I only carry Speer Gold Dot SB 135 grain +P in .38 special. Now I shoot all kinds/ brands of .38 special in lower loads for plinking and practice.
But for carry why downgrade? Your chances of ever firing a CCW are very slim in the 1st place. So those shots if they are ever taken should be with the best ammo you can find. And +P gives you more punch.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

148 hbwc target loads. best i've found for airweight .38 spl. hth.

I carry +P in all my older snubs, none rated for it, and if I have to use it the gun will go into evidence for a very long time. Your revolver is only a tool and +P gives it the best chance of optimum performance. This is the safety of you and your family at stake, why use something less than +P?

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

Hornady makes a 125 grain XTP in plain .38 special that should do the job.


Many practice with lead ammo that is not +P and shoot some of the +Ps just for familiarity and keep the rest for defense purposes. Shooting defense ammo for practice/target is way too expensive for most people. You are right, the ballistic gain isn't much, but I want every little bit I can get. Besides +P ammo these days is rather anemic compared to the old stuff.

At the range I shoot .38 wadcutters, I carry only one load for self defense. The Speer Gold dot load for short barrels-yes it is plus p.

At the end of most practice sessions I fire a round of full house self defense loads. With my current shooting habits, I probably shoot more than most people who wear a gun for living. YMMV

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The American dream is alive

Buffalo Bore is marketing a non-+P 158gr. LSWCHP they say is safe for all revolvers including alloy frames. They claim it leaves a 2" barrel at 880 fps, with reduced flash and a soft-lead bullet with a large cavity for enhanced expansion. If the claims are true it would be a fine carry round in an Airweight. I carry an all-steel J-frame so I don't worry about it, but I may try that load. I'd bet it has pretty hefty recoil in a lightweight gun.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Buffalo Bore tests their ammo with real guns, and they list the guns used on their web site. Their reports are reported to be accurate by list members who have clocked the ammo. I have used the above ammo, as well as their 150 gr hard cast WC's. Also non plus P. Since recoil is more a function of power factor (momentum) than peak pressure, it has plenty of "kick".
Double Tapp also has a hard cast 148 gr WC that is about midway between target loads and the BB stuff.
I like both loads and think the WC is an effective SD round, but they both shoot high in my 2 inch J frames. Otherwise, I would use the BB in my steel gun and the Double Tapp in my M442. Due to the high point of impact, I have been carrying Speer SB in my J frames. The Speer GD bullets have a much larger meplat than most other HP bullets that I have seen, like the XTP. Should the bullet not open for any reason, I think the GD will make a better wound channel. I would not want a non plus P JHP to expand when fired from a 2 inch barrel. It is asking too much to expect to get good penetration with an expanding bullet at such velocities. Since the WC's get good penetration and a full caliber wound channel, I feel well served using them for carry.

Best,
Rick

I carry this. 38 Special Plus P 110gr DPX | COR®BON/Glaser Self Defense | Dakota Ammo

It is a +P round but has low recoil. Yet it manages to push a 110gr bullet 1050 fps. IF you can find it!

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Winchester-Western Silvertips (standaed velocity)

Doubletap full hard cast wadcutter rated 750 fps out of a 2 inch!!

I don't like standard .38 Special ammo but not because of lack of velocity but because of bullet construction. The bullets used are very old and probably won't expand reliably at the lower velocities associated with a short barrel. The one exception I've found is the Federal Nyclad ammo but it was almost impossible to find even before the "shortage" hit.

Lighter bullets usually produce less felt recoil. That might be the way to go if you are tired of beating yourself up. I shoot either the Speer 135gr Short Barrel .38 Special +P ammo or the FBI Load depending upon which revolver I'm carrying.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

In my M37 I don't take a chance with anything but 158 grain LRN. 45 years old and still shoots great. No cracks. I would not want to be shot with them. I believe they would do the job just fine. I carry the exact rounds that I practice with, and it seems that with a snub it does take a little practice to be comfortable with using it for SD.
Peace,
Gordon

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better have that checked

I would agree with you about almost any bullet but the LRN bullet in a .38 Special. You do realize the LRN bullet has the nickname of "The Widow Maker" right? The LRN bullet that was originally loaded in the .38 Special performed so poorly it gave the .38 Special a bad reputation that to some point still remains today. IMO the LRN bullet is the worst bullet to use for SD. I would however use a LSWC/HP without worries like in the FBI Load. I highly recommend you rethink using a LRN bullet in favor of a LSWC/HP bullet instead.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I carry Federal Ny-Clad for my carry ammo in my model 37, but I have heard a lot of good things about the 158 gr. Buffalo Bore rounds from other shooters. I agree with OldCop though if you are fine with the +P carry it, if it's not a steady diet, your Airweight won't mind and practice with other standard ammo.

The San Diego CAL. police used standard velocity 158 gr LSW (non hollow point) for years as their revolver round. I understand they were happy with it.

Thanks guys.

DEWC 148 gr @ 800fps

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There's nowt so queer as folk

NON- +P, Standard 38 special ammo will work for SD with the
Nyclad, Winchester silver tip or lead target ammo but one has to know with the lower velocity and energy, 2-3 body hits may be required to stop a threat, if there is penetration to the vitals.
Some times just one shot will stop an attack, other times you
need more ............Even LE's with 40 years in the field never know what the out come will be.

Hornady 90gr 38spl Critical Defense 1200fps/288ftlbs in my M37, remeber it's not the arrow, but the shooter.

Recoil is not an issue for a carry load.
It's something you will never remember.
That belly gun has to go 'bang' and send something out the end that will penetrate.
Speer Gold Dot HP which is a bonded projectile.
This is no time to experiment. But, good luck, in whatever your choice.
If you don't understand my term 'bonded', please do yourself a favor and learn a bit about it.

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ShooterScooter.

A standard pressure handloaded 148 gr hard cast wadcutter chronoed
at 820 fps out of my 1 7/8" md 37.

What load are you using?

My 1 7/8" 38 spl snub nose with fac Remington 148 wc reached 640 fps +/- and the Federal 158 Lrn target ran 648 fps +/- .

nice target loads..............

Pete the bullets I have are flat base with a crimp groove and
stick out of the case aprox 1/8" and have an OAL of about
1.275 so I looked at Speer's data for their swaged BB-WC.
I bought them years ago and don't know the make. Velocities
are from about 12 ft from my chronograph. 4.0 grs Bullseye,
WSP primer = 819 fps, ES = 10 fps. 4.3 grs W231, WSPM primer = 817 fps, ES = 12 fps. Both loads are less than full
charges listed by Speer and by Lyman with similar bullets for
standard pressure loads. I use the Bullseye load. The gun
used was my 37-2 with 1 7/8" barrel.

My vote is for the Nyclad. I've heard good things about the Buffalo Bore, but I don't think it has the "street record" yet. Not enough real world shootings with it.

A lot of people will also recommend a regular wadcutter for their snubbies. Makes a nice clean hole and you don't have the problem of the hollow-point not opening with the reduced velocities out of the snubbie barrel.

I don't claim to know what's best, but Hornady Critical Defense is available in standard pressure .38

Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Ammunition :: Handgun :: Choose by Caliber :: 38 Special :: 38 Special 110 gr FTX® Critical Defense®

I use 158 gr hard cast SWC or 148 gr hard cast wc hand loads at non +p pressures.

I can't imagine any benefit to the high pressure stuff.

Trivial differences in velocity and/or foot pounds aren't worth the extra costs in terms of money, wear and tear or diminished shoot ability

I'm much more concerned with quick, controllable, accurate shooting than a little extra velocity, more muzzle blast and recoil that interfere with accurate, quick follow up shots.

Yep! Me too.



From the 1 7/8" barrel of my 642-1 into a line of water jugs. Seems to work.

THIS THREAD IS 1.5 YEARS OLD! I'm fairly sure the OP has either decided which ammo to carry or has given up by now. WOW!

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Just so you know..............

I recently did some Chronograph testing of the current crop of Remington and Winchester LSWCHP (FBI Load) and even though they are marked with the +P designation they chronographed to standard velocity spec's. Without getting off my butt now, I recall that they were in the mid 700's range of fps velocity from my 2" chief's Special M60-7.

I also tested some OLD standard velocity Remington, Federal and Winchester (1970's production) RNL and SWCL and they were virtually the same as the new crop of +P's.

To get TRUE +P performance you need to use either Buffalo Bore LSWCHP-GC (#20A) Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P (short barrel) or similar but I am sad to report the current FBI loadings from the Big Three Co's. fall quite short of what they once were!

Chief38, your chronograph testing is the reason I held onto the few rounds of the good older Remington FBI load but now load my carry and HD guns with the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore LSWCHP-GC that almost exactly duplicates the older Remington rendition and offers reduced flash.

Thanks for the heads-up about the "new and improved" version of the FBI load.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Re: OP. Do not currently carry a snub nose .38 Special. Have in the past. A soft SWC lead bullet at service velocity would be a good choice for the sort of up close and personal work for which the snub nose was designed. Of course a very soft lead bullet will likely cause some leading in the barrel. That in itself will be inconsequential. The main thing is that a soft lead SWC bullet hopefully with a hollow point will mushroom producing a more significant wound channel. A 158 gr. slug will be sufficiently heavy so that it will be able to penetrate enough to hit vital organs, etc. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

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