180 Gr .44 Mag -- Too Hot?

brokenprism · Apr 29, 2013

Was this load developed for hunting? I touched off a couple of Federals week before last, and it was a sonic surprise, after a string of 240 gr loads, but I can't remember if it was controllable. 240 is waypast my comfort zone. The 180s were almost 'fun'. Are they too hot -- overpenetration-wise -- for defense, or is that what they were made for?

kaaskop49 · Apr 29, 2013

Don't quite know what the 180s were made for. As to self-defense, while th .44Mag is no longer the 'most powerful handgun in the world,' it does throw out a big bullet at speeds from some 900fps (medium load) to over 1200fps using 240gr bullets. That 180gr is faster still. Expect over-penetration on human targets with any of them. I believe the W-W 210gr Silvertip .44Mag was made for defense; it is much lighter than the R-P 210gr.

snowman · Apr 29, 2013

kaaskop49 said:
I believe the W-W 210gr Silvertip .44Mag was made for defense; it is much lighter than the R-P 210gr.

Sir,

Could you clarify this statement for me? If they're both 210gr., don't they weigh the same? Please pardon me if I'm just too thick to understand what you're trying to communicate.

Thanks for your help.
Andy

358156hp · Apr 29, 2013

The 180 gr 44 magnum load was developed for a very important purpose. I discovered this information by accident, but am happy to share it with you. First of all, you need to be shooting at a rather crowded indoor range, and the place needs to be filled with 9mm shooters. You know the type. Load up a short barreled 44 with the maximum 180 gr loads and begin your slow fire practice. After two cylinders full, pause for a moment as you realize that you are the only person left on the range. Two words: muzzle blast. You just showed the little gun shooters who's at the top of the food chain.

Stainless44 · Apr 29, 2013

I thought the .44 mag Silvertip was made for killing werewolves. Then again I didn't think Obama would get elected, nor Clinton...so what do i know?

brokenprism · Apr 29, 2013

358156hp said:
The 180 gr 44 magnum load was developed for a very important purpose. I discovered this information by accident, but am happy to share it with you. First of all, you need to be shooting at a rather crowded indoor range, and the place needs to be filled with 9mm shooters. You know the type. Load up a short barreled 44 with the maximum 180 gr loads and begin your slow fire practice. After two cylinders full, pause for a moment as you realize that you are the only person left on the range. Two words: muzzle blast. You just showed the little gun shooters who's at the top of the food chain.

I saw that coming. : ) Yes, it was a blast when they went off. Way different from the rolling thunder of the 240 gr stuff. Probably too much for follow up shots but I can't remember exactly how they recoiled. I use CCI Short Barrel and they're awesome for comfort. I have speedloaders full of vintage W-W medium velocity LSWC, my favorite round. Lots of guys say to shoot .44 specials for defense, but I bought a 629 not a 624, so...

To the Silvertip guy -- I fired a couple of those and they were pretty hot; like the 180s in blast. If you want a carry load, I really recommend the CCI 200 gr short barrel .44 mag.

ImprovedModel56Fan · Apr 29, 2013

snowman said:
Could you clarify this statement for me? If they're both 210gr., don't they weigh the same?

I think that he's saying that the R-P is a "heavier" (more powerful, in this case higher-velocity) load than the STHP.

snowman · Apr 29, 2013

OK; thanks Model520Fan.

Andy

bmcgilvray · Apr 29, 2013

Here's an excerpt from an old .44 Magnum cartridge discussion I once posted here prior to the Forum conversion. Shows data collected with both 240 grain and 180 grain Sierra jacketed hollow point ( or as Sierra used to call them - jacketed hollow cavity) bullets.

.44 Magnum Handload Tests

240 Grain Sierra JHC, Max/H110: MV 1542 ME 1267 ES 25
" ", Max/W296: MV 1510 ME 1215 ES 49
" ", Max/Bluedot: MV 1461 ME 1135 ES 28
" ", Max/AL8: MV 1430 ME 1090 ES 30
" ", Max/2400: MV 1419 ME 1075 ES 71
" ", Max/Unique MV 1246 ME 841 ES 32
" ", Max/IMR4227 MV 1238 ME 817 ES 18

180 grain Sierra JHC, Max/H110: MV 1814 ME 1316 ES 62
" ", Max less 2.3 grains/H110 MV 1757 ME 1049 ES 40
" ", Max/W296 MV 1766 ME 1247 ES 49
" ", Max/BlueDot MV 1762 ME 1241 ES 33
" ", Max/AL8 MV 1694 ME 1147 ES 54
" ", Max/2400 MV 1620 ME 1049 ES 81
" ", Max/Unique MV 1548 ME 946 ES 37

All loads fired over a Oehler Model 12 chronograph from a Smith & Wesson Model 29 with 8 3/8-inch barrel
*Max means the maximum listed load as published in the 1978 edition of the Sierra Loading Manual
All loads used Remington cases and Remington 2 1/2 primers

CAJUNLAWYER · Apr 29, 2013

.357=158 gr SWC ot JHP
.44=240 gr SJSP
.45=.230 gr FMJ
9mm=115 fmj
30-06 =180gr
Why people use extreme weights either way is beyond me. The calibers were made with these weights in mind. If you want to shoot a 165 gr 30-06 why not just shoot a .308 instead??? A 158 gr .357 makes a lot more sense than a 180 gr. 44.
Pass the popcorn please (as he sits back in his chair and thinks "job well done here"

)

kaaskop49 · Apr 29, 2013

Hi Snowman! Model520fan explained what I meant, and no, I wasn't clear! The W-W Silvertip line seems to have been produced for personal protection. They feature a lower muzzle velocity(at least in .357, .41M and .44M) than higher-velocity hunting loads, and should be easier to control in double action. A glance at the ammo charts for R-P and W-W will give you some idea of the claimed velocities for all loads.

brokenprism · Apr 30, 2013

CAJUNLAWYER said:
.357=158 gr SWC ot JHP
.44=240 gr SJSP
.45=.230 gr FMJ
9mm=115 fmj
30-06 =180gr
Why people use extreme weights either way is beyond me. The calibers were made with these weights in mind. If you want to shoot a 165 gr 30-06 why not just shoot a .308 instead??? A 158 gr .357 makes a lot more sense than a 180 gr. 44.
Pass the popcorn please (as he sits back in his chair and thinks "job well done here" )

I don't get how this bears on the discussion...? A 158 gr .357 may be a better choice for self defense, but I don't own a .357, so I have only .44 loads to choose from.

That said, while I can load my 629 down to something suitable for self-defense, the 357 cannot be loaded up to handle what the 629 will with hotter loads. Yes...? What's the better all around choice now? : ) But to be honest, that's a moot point; I don't expect to meet any bears in my lifetime, and most of the guys who carry a .44 mag in the woods 'for bears' are kidding themselves. Unless they live in Alaska or Montana.

Who said the .44 mag Silvertip is for self defense? Having shot it recently, I can say it's not conducive to the thing everyone barks about with the 44M as a carry gun: follow up shots. The .44 special Silvertip, yes; the .44 mag Silvertip, not really. Try it. It's almost as big a blast as the 180 gr, which is where we came in.

moxie · Apr 30, 2013

Getting back to the OP's original question, YES, the 180 was developed for hunting, primarily deer, and is not very suitable for defense as it will overpenetrate. It is mean to be loaded hot as shown in post #9 above.

It's amazing how we can address every issue under the sun EXCEPT the OP's primary concern, even when we "don't quite know what the 180s were made for."

Larry from Bend · Apr 30, 2013

This recently came up on another forum (kinda) and lots of posters favored the 180 grain Hornady XTP for Deer hunting ---- Said it was the hammer of Thor.

If I HAD to use a 44 Mag for self defense, I'd pick a 180 or 200 grain JHP.

Over-penetration is a GOOD thing. People that complain about it apparently wear 6 or 8 handguns ----- all with different loads ---- so that they choose just the right one in a particular self-defense situation "So as not to over-penetrate"!!!!

Better they should worry about hitting the target.

kwselke · Apr 30, 2013

Larry from Bend said:
This recently came up on another forum (kinda) and lots of posters favored the 180 grain Hornady XTP for Deer hunting ---- Said it was the hammer of Thor.

If I HAD to use a 44 Mag for self defense, I'd pick a 180 or 200 grain JHP.

Over-penetration is a GOOD thing. People that complain about it apparently wear 6 or 8 handguns ----- all with different loads ---- so that they choose just the right one in a particular self-defense situation "So as not to over-penetrate"!!!!

Better they should worry about hitting the target.

Over penetration is what I want when I'm hunting. I remember shooting a feral hog @ 35 yards in the shoulder with a Speer 240 grain .44 SJFP launched at about 1,350 fps and it did not penetrate. The hog did not go anywhere, but I was disappointed my bullet did not penetrate through and through.

Out of the field and in my densely populated urban home area over penetration is something completely different in my mind. I'm not concerned about making a hit and having the bullet exit the bad guy, I'm concerned about a miss that would penetrate walls and injure innocents inside of their homes.

I've never used a 180 gr bullet in a .44, but I bet they would be fun to shoot.

CAJUNLAWYER · Apr 30, 2013

brokenprism said:
I don't get how this bears on the discussion...?

It doesn't. It just needed saying.

Go back and re read my post-the last sentence in particular

While you're at it-pass them taters.

LimaCharlie · Apr 30, 2013

CorBon has a self-defense round that is down in the .357 magnum power range.

Caliber: 44 Rem Mag
Bullet Wt.: 165gr CORBON Self-Defense JHP
Velocity: 1300fps
Energy: 619ftlbs
Test Barrel Length: 4.0 Inches

Hornady has a 180 grain self-defense round with 610 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy.

I shoot a lot of the Hornady 225 grain FTX LeveRevolution ammo in my .44 magnums.

358156hp · Apr 30, 2013

I will say that the light bullet loads for the 44 mag are absolutely glorious at twilight when fired from my Magnaported Mountain Gun. I don't shoot them often, being a cast bullet man, but they are rewarding, to say the least. You can get some pretty exotic 44 Spl/44 Mag loads for self-defense, but they are expensive.

imnobody · May 1, 2013

They look like this.

358156hp · May 1, 2013

Just like that... It don't get no better!

Anybody need their cigar lit while we're shooting?

180 Gr .44 Mag -- Too Hot?

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

US Veteran

Member

SWCA Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Attachments

Member

Similar threads