I just went to the Midway site and they show this load as discontinued. Anyone got any info?

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Presuming you mean Remington's version of the .38 Special +P "FBI load"?

It's been reborn under their defensive "High Terminal Performance" line; it's out of stock at Midway and overdue: Remington High Terminal Performance Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead

There's also a standard power target version coming down the pike: Remington Target Ammo 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Box of

The latter is not a hollow point. However, it would still be a very good load. The SWC-HP "FBI load" cannot be counted upon to expand from a 2" barrel.

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NHI, 10-8.

Sorry, but that's simply not true unless four layers of 16 oz. unstarched denim are involved (incidentally, you don't see this behavior as much with the FBI heavy clothing protocol except with the harder alloyed Winchester version). Even if the LSWCHP doesn't expand, it still morphs into a full wadcutter shape and crushes almost as much tissue as the latter.

No hollowpoint fired from a snub expands with 100% reliability, but I'll take my odds with a LSWCHP that expands more often than not.

The FBI Load's claim to fame is the fact it performs well from a short barrel revolver. It was not only carried in the 4" service revolvers but the 2" Chief's Special and Detective's Special revolvers too.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Federal also makes this product, I just picked up a box.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I got my information from Doc Roberts' testing. Expansion from short barrels is iffy at best.

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NHI, 10-8.

I respect DocGKR's testing and research, but if we took it for gospel we'd all be carrying light-for-caliber Hornady FTX in our snubs based solely on its performance in IWBA 4-layer denim testing.

One thing is for certain, however. When it comes to terminal ballistics, TANSTAAFL with a snub.

You are correct, Federal, Remington and Winchester all make their version of the FBI load. I prefer the Remington offering (Part #R38S12) because the lead is soft enough to allow for reliable expansion even with the slower velocities associated with a short barrel revolver. In a 4" barrel or longer any of the 3 are just fine. (the Winchesters are extremely accurate in my 4" M&P)

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Yes and No.

The Win. load, X38SPD 158 gr. LSWCHP +P load, was my departments issue load back in the '70's (recommended by the FBI firearms unit at the time) until we switched briefly to the Win. X38S6HP 110 gr. JHP +P load.

I still have 100 rds. of each.

Issue revolver was the S&W M10-4"HB. Most of us carried either an S&W or Colt 2" off-duty with the occasional M36-3" RB.

Back then, our "very scientific" testing consisted of firing various loads into 1 lb. blocks of "duct seal" compound, 3-4 blocks backed up to one another. The department couldn't afford ballistic gelatin then.

All that being said, the 158 gr. LSWCHP Win. load fired out of a 2" bbl. was iffy as to expansion in the duct seal. Some did, some closed up and became a LSWCFP.

Expansion in the 4" bbl. was generally good.

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JimC

This cracks me up! Same old hollow point ammunition given a magic name and doubled in price.

And they'll sell a ton of it.

It's called marketing.

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JimC

That's not what it said, it said other than the Speer SB 135's and the Corbon DPX rounds, others did not consistently expand out of Short Barrels.


Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Remington High Terminal Performance Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead

Remington Express Ammo 38 Special +P 158 Grain Lead Hollow Point Box

Oops- my bad! I was thinking of a different round.

I have to agree with JimC here. Our department policy was a carbon copy of Jim's dept. We used the same ammunition and firearms. In our limited testing abilities we found the Federal and the Remington to perform about the same, however the Winchester had more antimony in the lead which made it harder, in a lot of cases it would not expand and performed like a FMJ. The same was true out of a 2 inch barrel, expansion was unpredictable. In my opinion one of the top rounds today is the Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P both in 38 and 357 mag. That's not to say its the only one that's good, not the case, there are other rounds that perform well , I just happen to prefer the Speer. J L

I just watched a youtube 4Gel test with the old style Remington 125gr SJHP +P with the lead tip.

Two times in a row it plugged up with the denim and went all the way through the 18" gel pack !

I also saw a premium Winchester bullet go off course and exit the gel pack.......

along with quality bullets tumbling, separating, not expanding.......

"STUFF" happens........

Remington's NEW brand name (sales gimmick) is HTP but is 100% IDENTICAL to their # R38S12 which was the old designation. They just upgraded the name because they want to let people know their SD ammo is still "state of the art". In fact the only thing that's changed is the price - guess which way it went..........

Down. I was paying over $35 at Bass Pro for it a few years back and I bought some there this past Summer for about $28.

Back in the day, DEA regularly issued the Remington version to UCs who were using snubs, they remarked that it always seemed to open up, even out of a two inch barrel.
That said I'm currently hoarding three boxes of Federal Nyclad 125gr.+P for my snubs, its discontinued but it does open up.
Dale

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"Long live the S&W 3rd. Gen.!"

I carry the 158hard cast SWC over 4.7 grs. of Unique. It hits hard and to point of sites out to 20yards in chest size groups out of a no=lock 642. IN the winter its my outside pocket gun in my winter coat. It will punch through heavy winter jackets and hit the boiler room. I have put down big doe's with this load.