Been thinking of getting a pump gauge for home defense and for canoe trips. While 00 buck seems to be the most popular defense round, I know my grandfather always said to use 000 buck, which is it was he used in his police issue Ithaca. I know that 000 buck used fewer, but larger shot. Is there any reason why 00 buck is considered to be a better, or more popular defensive load?

I have shot both 00 and 000 buck out of my 20" Mossey Persuader, magnum loads and lower recoil versions..For HD, the lower recoil 2& 3/4" 00 buck , 9 pellets was found to suit my needs..
You also might consider #4 buck, 3" version, 32 pellets..
Also the choke on you SG will make a difference as to the pellet placement, mine has a Cylinder Bore..At 20 yards, using 12 pellet 00 buck it keeps all pellets, with an occasional flyer in a 18" circle..

I guess it all depends on what you might have to use the gun and load for. In the swamps of the south the only thing to fear are snakes and 2 legged predators. Where large game is concerned I feel buckshot would not be the first choice. I have virtually zero experience with shotguns for anything but birds, but have shot a few coyote with #4 buck and had poor results. Maybe some with more experience with buckshot can post a few real world results they have had using this load.

Actually, my favorite is #1 buck. Will flatten a coyote with authority and provides enough density for smaller varmints.

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Science plus Art

Sort of an interesting video, there are plenty on YouTube..
Is buckshot lethal at 50 yards? - YouTube

Another one..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZxlukBHe-w

It also depends on where you live and if over penetration will be a problem. I live in a residential neighborhood and use magnum #2's.

Either will devastate the target and more. Both have big boom and recoil, if you're concerned about your ears indoors and quick follow up shots.

If you insist, get a low-recoil defense load -- most of which will be found in 00 buck and will more than do the job, but are easier to manage.

The most thorough ballistic tests done on buckshot for defensive purposes hold that 1 buck is ideal: it's the smallest pellet that will still pass FBI gel protocols, and has the greatest total "acreage" of wound channel due to number and size of pellets.

Federal makes a superbly reviewed law enforcement load in 1 buck, but good luck finding it. I think their comparable low recoil load in 00 buck is excellent, as is Remington's Managed Recoil line.

We also have gators and hogs.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

#1 buckshot delivers the most mass, and knockdown. This was the conclusion of African professional hunter Peter Hathaway Capstick, who needed the best load to go into the brush to dispatch wounded thin skinned dangerous game, lion and leopard

For home defense, I've moved from 12 ga. to 20 ga. Certainly enough punch in indoor situations, less recoil, quicker recovery.

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That (Federal #1, I think they call it "Flite Control) is in fact the right answer if one is using buck, for the reasons stated. I don't use that round solely because long before it came out I had stocked up on 00, 000, and slugs. IF I load with buck, it is generally 000, as I prefer fewer heavier pellets for more consistent assured penetration and less risk of fliers. I would not go smaller than the Federal #1 for any purpose; #4 is simply not consistently reliable against heavy jackets, etc.

However, even in my basic academy in 1989, we were taught that buck was a special use, limited purpose load that should be avoided for most purposes. We trained and qualified with slugs, and that's what I have in my M590. This is especially important if one is likely to encounter offenders in vehicles - slugs if limited to shotgun, rifle preferable. The better slugs are the Brenneke, which I could not obtain in any quantity when I stocked up on shotgun ammo 10+ years ago, so I am using the old school Foster style. Also in my academy, they had multiple reports of slug use on bipeds, and really came down hard on anyone who whined about the risk of "over penetration". It not only was not happening, but was (and is) a far less significant risk than missing.

Of course, command staff are usually 20-30 years off the curve, and I was just speaking with a friend at WSP about this. They have been fighting for years to get rid of buck and go to slugs, and even with the problems they have had with buck (fliers, etc), they can't get the executive staff levels to comprehend the technical issues. Same thing with red dot sights and mounted lights on long guns. (I've dealt with those levels of WSP before - there is no risk that any of them will ever meet the Nobel committee. I swear that the only reason they have heads is to keep their ears from touching.)

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NHI, 10-8.

I'd run the 12 gauge for home defense, but have you considered using bird shot? There' a lot of people that have done penetration testing on this and have had favorable results with bird shot having enough power without over penetrating. Birdshot fired at a range of 15 feet and less is still going to be a fairly small, concentrated cluster and would certainly get the job done.

Actually, the validated testing with which I am familiar (properly calibrated gel) rejects anything smaller than #4 as a general rule. This is especially true with any kind of heavier clothing or other barrier (such as an arm, or the standard issue American food blister). Penetration is simply not adequate under enough circumstances to be relied upon.

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NHI, 10-8.

I use #4 Buck in my home for HD, but IMHO for the confines of a normal house I really think you are fine with any of the #1, #4 or 00 Buck Shot offerings.

A few years I went to a friends junkyard, He had some junk cars he was getting ready to crush and get rid of. We took several diff firearms from the 22lr on up. Don't think for a moment that either 00 or 000 from a 12 gauge wont do some SERIOUS damage! Regards Ernie

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Rimfires Makes me "Insane"

I had purchased some (winchester military buckshot) Olin.

I shot a Empty BBQ container at 15 feet and the pellets would not penetrate the tank. They put some dents in it but not a single hole, this was 12 gauge 2 3/4 inch shells. I ran a total of 10 of them thru because I could not believe my eyes.
Now I am not comparing animal flesh to ?gauge steel but I really thought it could do better.

#1 is ideal because it permits more pellets in the column, but not so many as to prevent penetration due to size as mentioned above. It is however harder to find than rocking horse dung.

I use #4 buck for home defense.

I see nobody else has mentioned it so, I will. My HD shotgun is loaded with 8 of those Winchester PDX1 Defenders.
I tried one out on a poor defenseless watermelon and the result was pretty nasty.

I have used buckshot for deer hunting for a long time. I always used 3inch 00 buck. I have killed numerous deer out as far as 90 yards with it. I killed one at 74 yards and 13 of the 15 pellets were in the deer.

But I have had certain guns that just couldn't shoot buckshot with any knock down power. My dad and I had identical 870 rem and mine couldn't hit the broadside of the barn but dads would reach out and get em. At first we thought it was just changing chokes would help...but didn't change a thing. We had the same issue with a pair of 11-87s. One would shoot them great and the other just sucked

NOT a good idea shooting BBQ tanks! A lot of them STILL contain Propane even though you open the valve and they appear to be empty. The tanks have a safety check valve on them that prevents gas from coming out unless the regulator is attached. This is so they do not leak when being stored.

Even IF the tank is empty...... BBQ Propane tanks are very strong due to the fact of their shape and steel construction. They have to make them that way since just about every neighborhood in America is flooded with them and they sit i the hot sun for hours on end. Buckshot is soft lead and more than likely will NOT have the shape, energy or hardness to penetrate steel. Not surprised at your results.

Human flesh is a different story and BBQ tanks are not a valid ballistics test for stopping power. If you put a BBQ tank in the middle of the interstate and it gets hit by a Mack truck doing 75 mph I'll bet the truck wouldn't penetrate the steel either - just launch it into the air or crush it. I would still NOT want to get hit by a Mack truck.

Plus the cylinder configuration , should deflect most pellets..
A flat steel plate target might be more helpful for pellet effectiveness...

That's great if your door gets kicked in by an home invading watermelon.


Sorry, just had to say that.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

There are three choices in home defense shotgun pellet sizes: double-ought (00), Number 4 buck and birdshot.

Some experts recommend your first shot be birdshot to avoid potential over-penetration issues, followed by either 00 Buck or 4 Buck, with slugs in a carrier, just in case.

It all has to do with penetration, stopping power and the balancing act between those and danger to bystanders.

IMHO any standard velocity 2 3/4" shell made by Winchester, Federal or Remington in #1, #4, 00 or 000 Buck Shot will take care of any "social problem" you might have inside a home. I like the #4 Buck, but that is really splitting hairs. One reason most probably use 00 Buck is that it is the most common and readily available pretty much anywhere they sells ammo. #1 and #4 are harder to find and in fact I had to order mine special. The #4 has more pellets (although smaller in size than 00) and might penetrate walls, furniture and other objects a little less than the 00. Still more than effective on bad guys though.

Before I retired, the Secret Service generally used #4 buck as their buckshot load. Don't know what they use today.

With any of the buckshot loads, I don't think your target is going to know the difference. If the pattern is centered on the target, a devastating wound results, especially within the confines of a home or business where ranges will be short and the patterns rather tight.

What he said! for self /home defense, #1 or even #4 delivers a denser pattern and the same muzzle energy without over penetration. If memory serves, the FBI used #4 buck for many a day.

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Dave

Just don't ever use these for home defense. They'll go through the person you're shooting at, through a few more and if you aim right, through the person driving the get away car................and possibly even the tree across the street.

@Hamster those look like brenneke's (supped up version)

Here is the ultimate close range shotgun load. IIRC it was developed by the British for use in guerilla warfare in Malaysia in the 50s.

12ga Multi-defense shotshells, 2.75" shells with one .65 caliber lead ball, and six #1buck pellets. 1300 fps velocity.

12ga Nobel Sport Centurion, 2.75", Multi Buck and Ball, 10rd Box.

Thanks for all the replies. Looks to me when it comes to 12 gauge buck just about all of them seem good. I will probably stick to the 000 or 00 bucks. Though I have seen some 12 pellet 00 2 3/4 inch loads, I always thought 00 buck in the short shell was 9 pellets max.