I live right on the border of Mexico & Texas and the DHS use our indoor shooting range for training/certification and out of curiosity since I carry a .40 I wanted to see what they used so I went over & glanced in the trash can after they had left to see what ammo they were using... I found a bunch of empty plain black & white boxes of Federal .40s&w 135gr. JHP XM40HA2....

I have a couple boxes of Federal XM40HC 180gr. HST's that I've been using in my Shield 40... I find it interesting that DHS was using 135 gr... I always thought LEO's would use the heavier 180 gr.

In the past the USBP (before becoming ICE under DHS) used to use the 155JHP. My guess is that DHS is issuing them the 135's now.

Do you still have the box? If so, any chance of posting a pic of the box with the end flap showing the product code?

XM40HA2... The HA designation was produced specifically for the border patrol (ICE)


I also have a box of XM40HC 180 gr. HST which I believe is government contract overrun ammo. I'm not sure what LEO branch the HC was designated for..

This is similar ammo you can find in the store, the difference is the gr. weight. It's marketed as "Federal Premium® Personal Defense® HST"

Attached Images

WP_20150629_10_40_54_Pro.jpg (44.6 KB, 124 views)

It was a special run to be used at checkpoints where fear of overpenetration was rampant. Most use the 180 gr. now.

I remember a gunwriter testing the then new 135 grain .40's; a friend helping him remarked that they had reinvented the 9mm.

It's this. The ammo expends earlier and has less penetration. All the tests I've seen the bullet comes to rest, fully expanded, at around the 10 - 12 inch mark.
It's easier to issue slightly different ammo in the same caliber than it is to issue 9mm to X amount of officers. Uniformity.

I'm using the boxes of 135 in a 4095 carbine with a 16"+barrel. The ballistics jump using these in a longer barrel. Corbon 135 is worth notice also. 1200-1400 fps is moving for a 40.

__________________
CA ban no sharp pencils ovr 3"

I fired some of this and found that it hits POA from my Glock 23 at 15 yards. Very light recoil. POI and recoil seem to be the same as the 165 Tactical bonded. Five shots averaged 1205 fps from my G23.

I have loaded the Nosler 135 in the .40 with Longshot powder when it first came out and easily reached 1550 fps out of my 4006. I settled on a load that is 1400 fps. It is pretty accurate too.

I carry my M&P shield 40 most of the time. Currently it is loaded with Winchester PDX1 165 gr although Federal hydra shoks in 135 gr. also gave very good performance.
For EDC in a compact 40, which brand/weight ammo would you guys suggest?

For my Shield 40 I would lean toward 165gr Gold dot. I have HST in 180gr which I first purchased for my full size 40's. Does anyone have a strong opinion for use of 165gr over 180gr?

__________________
CA ban no sharp pencils ovr 3"

CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W

Interesting, but note that the article appears to be 13 years old and the information cited comes from the late '90s. Though the roots of the 40 go back many years, at that time the 40 was a new commercial cartridge and reloaders and the ammo companies were still in the steepest part of the learning curve. A lot has been learned since then.

For what it's worth, I run 180s in my full size Beretta 96 and 135s in my 96 compact. But you can make a case for the 155 and 165 gr loads.

The Gun Culture has more trend and fads than a reality t.v. star. Right now the 9mm loaded with "Magic Bullets"is the must have item for the fall carry season. The poor old 40 is so last year. Not to worry, in a year or two there will be another fair haired child.

You are right that that article was at the height of the KB hysteria but I have read of many KB situations on other forums with 180gr .40's within the last couple of years. I had one myself. I only shoot 165gr and lower now. KB's may be fewer and farther between now with the 180gr but why take the chance when life and limb is involved.

Just to be sure I'm on the right page here, let me say I understand your concern to be increased pressure in 180gr 40 loads caused by bullet set back. I agree that this causes a dangerous condition, especially in a barrel with a partially unsupported chamber. But in my mind the issue is more the set back than any particular bullet/cartridge combination. I have actually seen more catastrophic case failures with 9mms than anything else, In those cases where I can be reasonably certain what happened, the cause was high cost defensive ammunition being cycled multiple times through the action before being fired. Of course in many cases I don't have a clue what happened, but I've seen enough to be cautious about set back in any cartridge.

One problem I have with the link you posted is the assumption that the shorter bullets will be more forgiving in a setback situation because thare will be greater case volume remaining. While that may be true it also may be rendered meaningless by the burning rate of the powder. And you have no way of knowing what power is used in commercial ammunition as it is a commodity purchased in bulk and blended on a lot to lot basis. So to my mind the trick is to avoid setback in the first place. I cycle auto pistol cartridges once. If it doesn't go out the barrel, it goes in the salvage box.

I guess I should make clear I'm talking about factory ammo here. When talking reloads there are a lot of other factors involved and we could talk for ever.

I don't expect my arguments to change your mind. If I has a gun come apart in my hand it would take a lot more than some guy's post on the Net to change my mind. But I do want to point out that shorter, lighter bullets may not provide as much margin of safety as one might think.

Regards

If you use 180's, haven't you just reinvented the .45 ACP?

My only argument about using shorter/lighter bullets than 180gr in .40 is that there is a slightly wider window of tolerance or margin of error when manufacturing when it comes to over pressure situations. No it's not going to cure every problem entirely but it reduces the odds that there will be a problem. Anything that will even slightly improve safety for me when firing a gun I'm all for.
Every KB story I have read or heard about involving a .40 was 180gr bullet. That's not to say it hasn't happened with other weights but it is obvious that the 180gr is much more likely to have problems.

The only Kabooms I've rad about are those where someone tried to turn the 40 into a 10.

Right now I am running Double Tap 155gr Gold Dot in both my Sig P229 and my FNP40. However I want to try some 135gr. Next time I buy I'm going to be looking for it.

__________________
I Cor. 10:13 "1611KJV"