I know HPR XTPs show great penetration and expansion for the BG 380....BUT...I'm experiencing cycling problems???? Anyone else?

I want it to go bang every time. Seen FTL, Seen XTP load....but gun not cocked???? Jams' etc.

Same day Herter's 95 gr. Ball ....NO problems. I think these are actually loaded by Fiocchi in Missouri?

I have issues with the XTP load in my LCP. Stovepipes are common. I don't have these problems with FMJ however.

__________________
-Mike-

Maybe I'll leave the one in the chamber as an XTP & the 6 in the magazine as FMJ.

I know tests have shown the XTPs have just about the best gel tests with 2.75 inch barrels.....but if I have to really use the BG ....I want to pull it out of my front pocket and have it go BANG 7 times without any glitches. Maybe it's the shape that's causing problems or the light load?

Is there anyone out there that has put hundreds of XTPs thru the BG380 without ANY problems?

Some bullet shapes just don't work in some auto's.

You can try a different bullet like the Rem GS or a box of
Winchester or Speer ammo to see if they will feed properly.

Some weapons might even need to be polished a little in some ramp areas
to fix the problems.... but this is the last resort.

I never remove metal in a weapon unless it is the last resort.

PS;
You might also check the magazine for proper bullet angle.
Some clips have the top bent corners too bent..........
which will angle the bullet downward.........
which will cause feeding problems.

Opening up the bend on each side of the magazine just a very slight bit..........
will let the case raise up a little and improve the bullet angle to the ramp........
that can let it feed up and into the chamber.

Take your time if doing this... and try not to mar the metal surfaces.

Good ammo hunting.

I have some Herter's .32 and it loaded by S&B in the Czech Republic.

Don't know about your BG 380, but mine is DAO and never stays "cocked" after cycling.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

Sounds like you're just not getting enough back thrust from the XTPs
to reliably cycle the action of your gun compared to the 95 gr FMJs.
The lighter bullet weight or light load or combination of the two is
probably the culprit. An article in handloader magazine on reloading
the .380 featured loads much hotter than factory ammo but were all
pressure tested to be within industry standards. The .380 is an old
round and like several others is loaded pretty lightly in factory ammo.

Thanks to everyone for your replies!! I checked the Herter's box....does say Czech..... I've put probably 6-700 rounds through the BG of various brands in the year I've had it. I was really hopped up about the XTPs after viewing the AmmoQuest video. Even mail ordered a box of PrecisionOnes from the company. They worked fine. At Cabellas the HPRs can be had much cheaper when on sale.....but I'm gonna stay away from them now.

Problem was not "Limp Wristing". I've put hundreds of rounds through it before using only one hand with no problem & on the day in question I was using 2 hands. If you want to see LW ....stand behind my wife when she shoots it!!!!!

About the gun "not being cocked" once...??? Must be a point where the trigger is...limp... if a round doesn't cycle completely.

I'm just gonna try to see if a couple of hundred of Herter's FMJs cycle flawlessly....if so I'll just stick with them.

Lost the hex wrench to adjust the laser....SW told me 0.035. Found some in a hardware store labeled 0.05 that seem to fit....maybe they aren't labeled correctly.

At Cabellas yesterday I played with both a Sig P238 & a Glock 42. Both feel great....but based on size, weight, etc. ...I'll stick with the the BG if I can find any round that goes bang 100% of the time. You would laugh if you could see my BG. I have put tennis grip wrap on the grip....small pieces glued to sides of the slide. & even tiny piece on the safety. This makes it much softer to shoot, rack, and release the safety. I feel very confident putting my hand in my pocket & releasing the safety. Just that tiny little bit of extra thickness & surface texture really makes a difference.

I haven't tried them yet but Freedom Munitions has 90 gr XTP .380 ammo (new) in stock @ $16/box of 50. Might be another one to try.

Sorry to get off topic but...I started this thread...so I can't hijack it. So here I can ramble.
In Kansas we have Constitutional Carry now (no CC permit required).
I've had my wife sew a simple line in my summer cargo shorts right front upper pockets. The barrel fits down into the pocket so that the gun is always positioned correctly.

Anyone ever heard of men's pants/shorts specifically designed for CC?

I've tried a pocket holster......no thanks.

Wow, that is cheap. I'm under the impression that if you loaded the XTP hotter (faster) that it might open up sooner(too soon) & not penetrate as far. But that would probably solve the cycling problem. I do recall on the HPR website them saying something about theirs being a softer load & on the AmmoQuest results site ....seems like they clocked the HPR XTP as being only about 789 FPS from a 2.75 inch barrel. Whereas some of the Hornady's own XTPs were clocked at 851 FPS. Hornady's "Customs" might be the solution for me...in the tests they didn't penetrate as far...but still met the FBI STANDARDS. THE greater speed causing them to open up sooner?

+1;
on looking at Ammo Quest !!

Lots of good stuff on 380 ammo and how it works plus you get to see the fps and how the bullet reacts in gel and 4G.

After watching the 9mm section I chose my ammo.

Good luck finding a load...........
FMJ feed great but are not the best SD design...... but if that is all that works in your pistol, go for it.

7-8 that work are better than just one and a fail to feed.

You want to hear some real cylcing horror stories....look up glock 42 cycling problems....

Really? Because my 42 has never missed a beat. Hand loaded xtps. Rem hps. Plated reloads. The first magazine when it was bran new had two failures to feed that's it. While I have hardly tried every ammo combo it has been great so far. I am not impressed with Glock using valuable magazine area for their useless plastic coating however. The magazine should hold atleast 1 moar round and that useless coating could be done away with and metal sides expanded for atleast that 1 more shot.

I've never fired a g42, just saying if you dig on the internet it appears the roll out of the 42 was just as big a disaster as the early roll out of the BG. Many were replaced free of charge.

Just went to Cabelas & by applying for their CC got $ 25 off 2 boxes of the hotter Hornady Custom XTPs. Hopefully 851 feet / second solves the problem with the 789 feet/ second HPR XTPs.

Will report back when complete.

My problem with the G42 is no safety & a lighter trigger pull. I want to keep 7 in my gun...& my mods with the safety on the BG combined with the harder DAO trigger make it seem more unlikely to get an accidental discharge. Plus, laugh at the BG's laser if you want....but at 25 yards (75 feet) I scored 29 out of 30 first time I fired a gun in 30+ years.

So AmmoQuest clocked the Customs at 851 FPS & the HPRs at 789 FPS.
An online muzzle energy calculator has that at 145 ft lbs vs 124 ft lbs.(for a 90 grain bullet).

Hopefully this 17% increase will be enough to eliminate my cycle problems.

On the Custom box it says 1000 fps ....this would equal 200 ft lbs....Hornady must test with a longer barrel 380 ....longer than the 2.75 inch of the BG.

Wishoot says the XTPs that he had problems with in his LCP were Fiocchi Extremas...Ammo quest clocked them at only 2 fps faster than the HPRs....so maybe his problems are same as what I think mine are.....not enough kick to cycle the gun consistently.

Hornady 380 data comes from a long 4" barrel.

So you may have to adjust your energy and fps with shorter barrels.
One reason it is nice to see figures that come out of shorter 3" barrels, that a lot of us use.
That extra inch can mean an extra 30 to 80 fps with different powders. 1,000 fps can drop to just 920 on a bad set up.

One reason I really love my chrony, when testing out ammo.

When Ammo quest tested the various XTPs....they used a gun with a 2.75 inch barrel....either an LCP or BG380. So the average for the Hornady Customs was 851 = 145 foot pounds energy. Vs. The HPRs at 789 = 124 foot lbs. That 17% more kick....

Will probably go to the range today......may just be conical bullets won't reliably feed up the BG RAMP. Would be nice if I get no failures...if some more of you guys that are interested in the XTPs would put some of the CUSTOMS thru also so we could get a bigger sample size.

Normally one looks for ammo that will function correctly in their gun.
This thread seems to be about finding a gun that will function correctly with their ammo......

(This could get expensive..).

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

OK...today I put 50 HPR XTPs thru the BG.....4 cycling failures.
I also put 43 of the Hornady Customs XTPs thru ...ZERO failures.

Appears the extra 17% more foot lbs of kick solves the problem.

Perfect bullet for the perfect pocket gun??????????

I kept 7 of the Customs to keep in the gun.

Would sure be nice if more BG owners that are interested in the XTP bullet would try the Customs & report back.

Again, my thread....can't hijack. Read story on other forum.....officer shot bad guy 5 times with a 357.....almost 2500 foot lbs total force. Bad guy hit officer only once (side of vest).....with. 22lr. Bad guy lived....officer died on scene. Shot placement / penetration.

Since I think we've found "THE" bullet for the BG....it's good to discover that Hornady's "new" American Gunner 380 XTP bullet is apparently the exact same as the stuff in the box called Custom. Their website lists both of them at 1000 feet per second from a 4 inch barrel. What's good about this is right now anyway you can find the American Gunner box (same number of rounds) cheaper.

Then why not just stick with FMJ? I recently bought a Taurus
TCP 738 .380 auto. 175 rds of various brands of FMJ so far
has produced 1 FTFeed and 3 FTExtract with a brand of ammo
that has a very thin case rim. I have full confidence that it
will work with good FMJ ammo if needed.

I'm no expert, but I'm guessing every type of semi automatic based on design/spring tension, etc. has some minimum # of ft pounds of force required to ensure 100% confidence in cycling properly. 4 failures in 175 attempts .....I don't want to bet my life on a 2.3% chance it won't go boom when I need it to.

I'm trying to find a bullet that In my gun both meets the FBI standard of 12 to 18 inches of penetration & expansion (bare gel & denim covered). Plus, will cycle flawlessly 100% of the time.

On the Midwayusa ammo site found 20 reviews by people with BGs, LCPs, etc. That said the Customs worked flawlessly in their guns. Zero reviews noting any failures to cycle.

The American Gunner stuff is newer.....zero failures on the few reviews noted.

I've had zero failures with ammo that has a good well defined case
rim with a good flat surface on the front face of the rim. But I'm going
to stick to that type of ammo and keep shooting it for a while and see
how long it takes to get the first malfunction.

I have fired 150 rounds of Freedom Munitions 90gr XTP, mostly from my Glock 42 but a few in my Beretta, and 0 malfunctions from the ammo, but I think the Freedom Munitions 100gr flat point .380 will be my carry ammo. So far 0 malfunctions in either 380 or in 3 different 9mm handguns. I like FM 124gr XTP at 1100FPS as my carry ammo. I have about 1000 rounds of it thru Kahr, Glock, and CZ with no problems at about 36 cents a round. Usually around holidays they do free shipping.

Anyone out there fired say 50-100 of the 380 HPR XTPs thru their BG or LCP ( or any similar small 380) ? Did you have any cycle failures?

After reading this thread, I grabbed a box of HPR and my LCP and headed for the range. I loaded up 3 mags and had at least one failure to extract from 2 of them and a stovepipe from the third. Fired a 4th and 5th with no issues. If it was limp wristing it would have more than likely shown up on the later mags as the LCP is no fun to shoot. No issues with WWB flat points or Hornady Critical defense in the past. This is a different result from my last time shooting the HPR round and I'll be using it up at the range and going back to the Critical Defense as a carry load until I find something better. May order a couple boxes of Precision One to test.

About a week ago I sent an email to HPR telling them that I suspect their 380 XTPs are loaded too weak to reliably cycle some of these small 380 semi-automatics. No response.

Probably this.

HPR had issues in my early manufactured Glock 42 (dual recoil spring), but worked fine in my LCP. Went to Precision One (same XTP bullet), and had no issues with cycling in either gun.

Obviously, you should always test your SD ammo in the gun you're carrying it in.

__________________
Watch & Pray

Went to range again today.....so far out of 100 of Hornady's own 851 fps 90 grain XTP loads ( 50 "Customs" & 50 "American Gunner").....ZERO failures to cycle.

I'm done testing ......next one I ever fire will be going into somebody. Hopefully that never happens!

Hopefully this thread will help others interested in the different brands of XTPs decide on which one to use as their SD ammo.

This is why I don't trust a .380 to impart sufficient velocity to make HP bullets expand. Why would you want to effectively put " speed brakes" on a subsonic bullet. (Not a good Idea).

In "blowback" autoloaders, (9 X 18 and smaller) stick with FMJ or hard cast lead bullets. Accuracy and penetration are what's desired, rather than pinning your hopes on "it may/or may not expand" and "it may/may not feed properly".

Bull!

Autoloaders MUST function as a Bic pen... first time, EVERY TIME!

Rant off.

Get yourself a box of Hornady Critical Defense. 11 3/4" penetration in ballistic gel ...and that's at 10'. Self defense use is MUCH more likely to be closer, meaning even deeper penetration. Of course, its consistent expansion is a matter of record. (See tnoutdoors9 video)

Can't say I'm a fan of messing with the slide though.

__________________
Stay protected my friends.

Ammoquest tested both the Critical Defense and the Customs under the same controlled conditions.

CD = Ave. Only 8.5 inches in bare gel & the WTI (wound trauma index) was only 2.11.

The Customs in bare gel averaged 12.5 with a WTI of 25.81.

No contest.



In denim gel...Custom WTI 23.8 vs 18.84 for the critical defense. One of the critical defense did not open & slightly over penetrated.

These tests were done with a 2.75 inch barrel gun.

All the brands of XTPs tested were in the "Winner Circle".......the issue of this thread is to find one that "ALWAYS" has enough foot lbs of energy to cycle the BodyGuard 380. Amoung the XTPs AmmoQuest tested the CUSTOM was the fastest .....so it opens up a bit sooner....thus penetrates a little less....but still meets the FBI standard of 12-18 inches plus always expands. By being the fastest..(most powerful) it appears to always have enough kick to cycle my BodyGuard 380. 100 out of 100 shots.

Critical Defense averaged 857 fps vs 851 fps ....both are 90 grain.

Well after 150 of the Customs/American Gunner (XTPs) + 50 PMC Bronze FMJs ...that's 200 shots in a row with NO cycle failures.....I declare that the BG380 cycle problems only occur with ammo that is touted as"Low Recoil"...I.e., low muzzle energy rounds. VERY happy with the gun now....

1/20/2016. Received an email from HPR......they say they're going to send me a free box of their REFORMULATED HPR XTP (JHP) 380 To test. I assume this means they have added more powder. Maybe I wasn't the only one reporting cycling problems with their slow ammo.

I've shot hundreds of Hornady American Gunner XTP & Fiocci Extrema XTP's through my KelTec PAT with no problems. When I first got the gun I tried FMJ's, some brand (forgot what it was) of round nose ammo and Fiocci HP's and they all functioned fine. But, before I fired a single round I polished the ramp and the chamber with a soft dremel pad. Got them to a mirror finish and have had no trouble with any brand so far. Try polishing and see what happens.

I use the HPR 90 grain HP in my M&P .380 and have never had a problem with feeding or cycling.

__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

M&P 380......is that basically identical to the BG380?

Did the same to my TCP738 when the XTP and Critical Defense rounds did not feed. Had a few problems for a couple hundred rounds...now every type feeds, fires and ejects with no problem. Every cleaning (after every firing) the ramp gets polished with Mothers Polish.

I received the same email from HPR yesterday. I'll post a range report after I receive the new ammo.

Christopher, glad you got it worked out. These short feed ramp .380's can be tricky with ammo. Different guns but my experience with 2 P380's, one new and one purchased used ... various stovepipe, failure to feed or return to battery with several ammos including Fiocchi Extrema XTP's and HPR XTP's. A trip back to Kahr took care of the problems.

After that both Fiocchi and HPR XTP's were very good and almost but not perfect reliability. About the time I got them back, some Precision One XTP's I ordered arrived. Those are 100% reliable in my guns. Also the HPR 100 gr TMJ's, and Federal 95 gr FMJ's are 100% reliable. So the guns are humming smoothly now. But, just to illustrate the point that these small guns can be picky, Magtech 95 gr FMJ's, which function well in the 6 round mags, will give me 1 or more failures each mag load of the 7 round extended mags.

Now, these 2 P380's are 100% reliable until they get dirty after about 75 rounds or so in a range session. It seems at about that level of "gun dirty" I will get one (usually only one) stovepipe or premature slide lock back, which coincides with about as much as I want to shoot in one session with my indicator it is time to clean the gun.

For those of you who mentioned G42, Precision One, in addition to the standard .380 XTP loading, also loads the XTP in a load version with a little more oomph (they call it +P) to handle the heavier slide/springs of the G42, but not intended for other .380's.

Haven't received the reformulated HPRs yet but tried 100 Sig Sauers yesterday.....they suck.

Received 2 free boxes (2 x 50) of the reformulated 90 grain JHP (XTPs) from HPR.
LOT # = 3803011916. HPR's website still lists them at 915 fps. I assume the new formula is more powerful & they will update that data eventually. Also, I assume the data they list is from a 4 inch barrel.
Based on Ammoquest data ....you can probably reduce that number by ? Close to 150 fps for a 2.75 inch barrel ?? If you're interested in buying HPR 380 xtps.......
don't buy earlier lot #s.

I just received a box of the same lot today. I'll post a range report as soon as I get some range time.

After my glock g42 was reworked by the repair facility. I had zero issues with any ammo at all to include the HPR xtp, and the herters. This is not your pistol, but I would suggest your get some 600 grit emery paper and polish the feed ramp. I have many friends for whom this fixed their issues. Just a suggestion.

__________________
Regards from THE Old Fart