Can anyone tell me about the all brass shotgun shells I found years ago. They' ve been hiding in my gun room for years now. Double ought buck. Its my guess they came from Vietnam era and we used them because the paper shells would swell and the gubbermint didn't trust the new fangeled plastic ones.

I'm guessing they're as good or better than current production ammo. Anyone here carry a 12 gauge over there?

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Dick Burg

I personally didn't use a 12 gauge but knew a couple of fellas that did. I did take a couple of their brass shells home and compared them with some that my dad had brought back from WWII. They look as if they came out of the same box.

All brass is most likely WWII vintage. Do you have any pictures of the shells or the boxes? That would help.

No pictures, no box even. I bought them in a homemade white paper container, the right size for a 12 gauge. Guess I need to dig them up and really look at them. I have no fear of shooting old ammo, been doing it my whole life. I guess the head stamps can tell me who and when.

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Dick Burg

Military issue from WWII. In my era they were issued to prison guards and pay roll escorts
The brass shells held up longer as the shotguns were loaded on issue and unloaded when turned in numerous times.

I have several in my collection. Most are Winchester head-stamp, a few are stamped Wells Fargo. All are 2-1/2" length. Definitely old stuff, more suitable for collectors than for shooters.

I seem to remember that brass shotgun shells came into being during the years when blackpowder was in use. I have seen a very few that were used in the very large gauges that were used many years ago, such as 10, 8, and 4? gauge shotguns. I remember seeing some of the new brass available for sale in many years past. I do not recall seeing any "factory" made ammo in brass, so these may have always been a handloading proposition. None of this is established fact, just thoughts this post brought back into my head and my memory is highly suspect these days!

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So long ... Ken

I agree more than likely US military. I have a Duck Unlimited tin box commemorative unfired box of 25 12 gauge brass shells by Remington at a flea market years ago. Last ones I have seen.

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Stay safe people!

From my feeble memory, I recall these being mid to late WW II. In the Pacific where most shotguns were used, problems arose from paper shells swelling when they got wet and then had failures to feed or extract. So the brass shotshell was produced to eliminate the problem. By the time Vietnam got rolling, plastic shotshells were all the rage and these are what was used most of the time. Early 1900's also saw brass shotshells but these were not popular.

Brass shotshell cases have a long history. During the late 19th Century, most hunters loaded their own shotshells in brass cases before they went hunting. Not much in the way of reloading tools was needed beyond a powder dipper and a shot dipper. Factory paper shells became much more popular later. Both brass and paper shells were used by the military during WWII. Most shotgun combat use was during the Pacific campaign, and brass shells were used there. I don't remember ever hearing about shotgun use, at least under combat conditions, in the ETO, or later, in the Korean War. The moist and wet conditions in the Pacific affected paper cases adversely. Remington once made a waterproof paper shotshell mainly for duck hunters, under the "Arrow" brand. The paper case was coated with clear shellac, and they are easily distinguished by their glossy appearance. I have one specimen of a 00 Buck 12 gauge Remington "Arrow" shell, but have no idea whether it might have been military. Plastic shotshell cases made their first market appearance in the early 1960s and provided satisfactory moisture resistance for combat use, and were well established by the Vietnam War era. There may have been some brass case shotshells left over from WWII used in Vietnam, but I am not sure of that.

I have one in my meger ammunition collection and have attached a poor photo showing the shell. It is, as has been mentioned, a 12 gauge.

A photo of the headstamp was taken but, I cannot retreive it from the computer. The headstamp shows "WINCHESTER" at the 12 O'Clock position and "No. 12" , with the "o" in a higher position and underlined.

The "crimped" end of the shell is rolled over onto a heavy paper insert. The middle of the paper insert has a circle, stamped in black ink and in the center of the circle at the top, "00" appears and then centered between and below the "00" is a "B."

The shell length is 2 3/4 inches. I obtained this shell from a friend of mine who was a Major in the USMC. He shot on the Pacific high power rifle team and was a member of the Trap and Skeet team when stationed on Okinawa. He told me that he discovered two cases of these in an ammo bunker and decided that since they were not on the inventory, he would dispose of them as a service to the Corps.

I will try to post photos of the headstamp and the crimped end this evening.

Attached Images

12B.JPG (101.7 KB, 102 views)

I have now been able to attach a photo of the head stamp and the crimped end.

Attached Images

	IMG_0795.JPG (46.4 KB, 91 views)
	IMG_0794.JPG (46.6 KB, 81 views)

The 12 gauge all brass are Rem-Umc/Best. I'm going to guess that maybe they are reloads because I can see marks that appear to be resizing grooves. Worse, they seem to be sealed with what my father used to call "glassine" over the over-shot wads. Worse still, the first one I pulled out has a crack in the case and head. I've never seen that before on center fire ammo. It comes up the body, then through the rim and over nearly to the primer. That one is clearly unsafe to fire.

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Dick Burg

The Army was still issuing some brass shells when I came into the Army in 1966.They were loaded by W-W and came in boxes of 5 rounds. the boxes were tan cardboard with all the normal military printing. They were readily available at the time and I wish that I had saved some of them. I saw a good many shotguns in use in VN in 1969-70, but don't recall the ammo used.

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Tom
1560

We had Winchester Model 12's and Model 1897's during my time in Vietnam. Typical ammo issued was plastic-cased high-brass 2-3/4" with copper-plated 00 buckshot, but we also saw some loaded with fleshettes (steel darts with fins, about the size of 4d finishing nails).

The 1897's were the original WW1 era "trench guns", equipped with perforated steel heat shields around the barrels with bayonet lugs accepting the 1917 Enfield bayonets.

The Model 12's were more recent production, probably 1950's or 1960's), some were equipped with heat shields while some were not. Some were parkerized, some were blued steel. Some were stamped with the Ordnance Bomb markings, some appeared to be standard police riot guns.

I don't recall seeing shotguns used in infantry field operations. Most of the shotguns I saw were on base camps where they were carried by fixed and patrolling guards.

"Worse, they seem to be sealed with what my father used to call "glassine" over the over-shot wads."

I have never heard it called Glassine, but the old-time practice was to cement the over-shot cardboard disc in place in the brass case mouth with a sodium silicate solution usually called "water glass." It was used to seal eggs. You would dip fresh eggs into a sodium silicate solution and it would seal the porous eggshell against any air migration through the shell, allowing raw eggs to be stored for a long time without going rotten. This eggshell sealing method was very common back in the days before refrigeration, and water glass was a standard general store stock item. When the silicate solution dries it is hard and glassy and makes a pretty good adhesive.

Many old timers also cut their own felt over-powder wads and cardboard over-shot discs using circular cutting punches, but they could also buy ready-made felt wads and cardboard discs. It worked then, and would still work today. Many hunters back then didn't feel the need to carry much more than a half-dozen shells afield, as they usually made every shot count.