Apples and oranges. Your speed and shot charge is not the same. FPS is pretty close but change the 20 to 1 oz. or the 12 to 7/8 oz. and there will be a big change. Larry
12 gauge reduced recoil vs 20 gauge
- Thread starter agent00
- Start date
Apples and oranges. Your speed and shot charge is not the same. FPS is pretty close but change the 20 to 1 oz. or the 12 to 7/8 oz. and there will be a big change. Larry
@Bronco89 Yeah the weight of the shotgun is a factor that should be considered as well if you need to carry around the gun for quite some time. For my specific needs that factor is irrvelant though. The gun is only used for target/fun shooting and for home defense. In that case a heavier gun is not a big disvantange. Because the shotgun is not going to be carried around for an extended period on time.
ps: Is someone of you familar with Stoeger shotguns ? I have never heard about them before and I had norrowed my potential chocies down already to either the Baikal MP-43KH or a uberti coach gun, but the stoeger double defense looks also quite nice and the price looks good too.
ps: Is someone of you familar with Stoeger shotguns ? I have never heard about them before and I had norrowed my potential chocies down already to either the Baikal MP-43KH or a uberti coach gun, but the stoeger double defense looks also quite nice and the price looks good too.
agent00: Go with the 12 GA. I live in Switzerland and I have a doublebarrel shotgun in 20 GA and shotguns in 12 GA.
20 GA ammo is harder to find, there is less choice and it is more expensive.
From my point of view there is no good reason to buy a 20 GA if you can also buy a 12 GA.
Buy ammunition from different manufacturers and compare the felt recoil. There are huge differences.
20 GA ammo is harder to find, there is less choice and it is more expensive.
From my point of view there is no good reason to buy a 20 GA if you can also buy a 12 GA.
Buy ammunition from different manufacturers and compare the felt recoil. There are huge differences.
If you are just looking for recoil numbers........
here are some numbers if your shotgun weighs 7 pounds with 1 oz. payloads.
20 Ga. 2 3/4" #2 Buck (15) at 1220 fps......................... 19.7 ft/lbs
12 Ga. 2 3/4" 00 Buck (9) at 1145 fps (reduced load) ... 17.6
12 Ga. 2 3/4 BB steel (72) at 1250 fps ......................... 20
Pretty much a toss up, except for pellet counts.
here are some numbers if your shotgun weighs 7 pounds with 1 oz. payloads.
20 Ga. 2 3/4" #2 Buck (15) at 1220 fps......................... 19.7 ft/lbs
12 Ga. 2 3/4" 00 Buck (9) at 1145 fps (reduced load) ... 17.6
12 Ga. 2 3/4 BB steel (72) at 1250 fps ......................... 20
Pretty much a toss up, except for pellet counts.
Yes it is the same here in Austria. 12 gauge widely available and 20 gauge rather hard to find compared to the plenty of different loads available in 12 gauge.
Trying out different manufactures is also good advice to compare the recoil. I was planning to that as well.
I also want to try out different slugs. Only for target shooting though. For sd I will either use some heavy lead or stell birdshot or 00 buck.
@All speaking of steel shot. Can steel shot be used in any shotgun or does the shotgun need to be certified for it.
As a layman I would say that due to the fact is harder than lead it migh be bad for the barrel but maybe I am just overthinking things.
I have read online that certain guns have special marks for steel shot online but my prefered shotguns
Baikal MP-43KH or the standard baikal guns does not seem to have such certificates.
I am unsure now if steel shot can be used.
@Neveda Ed thanks a lot for submitting the recoil numbers.
The difference is really not that big when the recoil numbers are concerned. Considering the better availability of 12 gauge rounds in my country the 12 gauge is the better choice for sure.
As I have said I already have decided that is going to be the 12.
The only remaining question left is which gun it is going to be. the 2 baikals or the stoeger double defense?
The 12 gauge coach gun from Uberti would be a honrable mention. It would be more expensive than the other choices but I really like the classic look of that shotgun. I like these old west type revolvers and also rifles.
With steel , the old modified choke acts like a "Full choke" with steel pellets.
Steel does much better with a skeet or Cylinder choke, so there will be very little
chance of the hard pellets and wad, going down and out the barrel, to bulge the barrel...........
if the metal is softer than the steel pellets.
One reason the newer duck hunting shotguns have long 3" chokes made out of special materials,
that thread into the muzzle ends, to prevent damage and also give a good pattern for hunters.
I just tossed the steel ammo out there, just in case someone had a hunting
gun they might use, if they did not have the old style shotguns, at hand
designed for lead pellets.
Steel does much better with a skeet or Cylinder choke, so there will be very little
chance of the hard pellets and wad, going down and out the barrel, to bulge the barrel...........
if the metal is softer than the steel pellets.
One reason the newer duck hunting shotguns have long 3" chokes made out of special materials,
that thread into the muzzle ends, to prevent damage and also give a good pattern for hunters.
I just tossed the steel ammo out there, just in case someone had a hunting
gun they might use, if they did not have the old style shotguns, at hand
designed for lead pellets.
Last edited:
Just to make a point for the 20: you'll still be shooting the same gun till you're well into your 80's. I used a 12G LCSmith till I was almost 70. I switched over to an LC in 20 a couple years ago and have no regrets. Lighter is better - whether afield or not. Sure you don't mind the 12 gauge weight, but your GF might. In house self defense means adrenalin will eat up any recoil issues. Nobody likes any size hole punched into them - 12G or 20G. Your garden variety brigand won't hang around to measure the hole size, he'll head back to his lair for that. Pronto. My go to home defense gun is a 12 double. Any load works. Try to get something that won't go through three or four apartments. Double 12's were real cheap a few years ago at auction. I got an 80 year old one for a hundred bucks several years ago and now it sports 20 inch barrels. 12 is a good choice, but if you find a deal on a 20, don't feel you'll be short-changed. Besides, you can always swap it off later on (when the perfect 12 comes along). The gun you have is much better than the gun you're waiting to find.
DWalt
Member
At typical distances inside a house, loads using smaller shot sizes will be effective for SD, but I would prefer using the largest bird shot sizes available to get better penetration through clothing. If handloading is an option, I would make up light loads of 2 or 4 shot. I do not know if light loads of #4 Buck are available, but if they are, that is what I would suggest.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
agent00, I load my short barrel home defense shotgun with #4 Buckshot and it feels softer that 000 Buck.
I didn't see this suggestion, I don't know what kind of a recoil pad is on the shotgun you are looking to buy. I had a single shot 12ga that was just brutal on my shoulder. I bought a slip on recoil pad like made by Limbsaver. It will make a huge difference in her shoulder even if the gun has a small pad on the stock. I don't know if that company is sold in your country but if yoh do buy be sure it's a high quality slip on pad or you will waste your money.
Here is a link to their company site so you can get an idea what to look for.
AirTech Slip-On Recoil Pad – LimbSaver Online Store
I didn't see this suggestion, I don't know what kind of a recoil pad is on the shotgun you are looking to buy. I had a single shot 12ga that was just brutal on my shoulder. I bought a slip on recoil pad like made by Limbsaver. It will make a huge difference in her shoulder even if the gun has a small pad on the stock. I don't know if that company is sold in your country but if yoh do buy be sure it's a high quality slip on pad or you will waste your money.
Here is a link to their company site so you can get an idea what to look for.
AirTech Slip-On Recoil Pad – LimbSaver Online Store
Thanks for the advice. Well reolading would be possible in Theory but you Need a special licencese to do so here in Austria. I would be interested in learning reloading but I have not optained the license yet. So factory rounds is the only way to go.
#4 Buck rounds are available here in Austria. Not as ubiquitous as 00 buckshot but the Winchester Super-X Ammunition in #4 Buck is always sold by my local gunstore. It is on backorder now but in Theory still fully obtainable.
ArchAngelCD Thanks a lot for your advice with the recoil pad.
@all is it possible to load 12 gauge 2+3⁄4-inch (12/70) in 3 Inch (12/76mm) shotguns like the System with using 38 special in a 357 mag Revolver?
12/76 guns were not on my Radar to be honest because using that Kind of ammo would be a Overkill for target/fun Shooting and for hd. Not to speak About the highter Costs.
But according to my local gun store clark there will be a used Chaparral Arms Wyatt Earp 1878 Coach gun at sale next week hich grasped my attention. As I said above I am into These old old west type guns.
In case the Price is really that attractive ( the clark did not tell me the Price yet, he just told me that is going to be much under the retail Price) and my gf likes the look and feels of the gun that would be an Option too.
But only if I can use 12/70 rounds in it too. 12/76 rounds would be widely available but the Price is isane for lots of Shooting.
What are your thoughts about the guns from Chaparral Arms in General?
Last edited:
DWalt
Member
Shotguns having 3" chambers will readily handle 2-3/4" shells. The main advantage of 3" shells is that they throw more shot, mainly for hunting waterfowl (ducks, geese) where shots at long distances are more common. Most US hunters of other game use 2-3/4" shells for hunting. It's safe to say that in the US, most shotguns with 3" chambers will never fire a 3" shell. Unless its owner is a waterfowl hunter.
Last edited:
The shotgun needs to be certified for it. If it is approved for steel shot, then it has a lily (in German 'Lilie' - check in the internet for 'Stahlschrotbeschuss').
Bumpus13
Member
I tend to really enjoy shooting my 12 and 20 gauge scatterguns.
I will say that my 12 gauge coach gun kicks harder than any of them except for my 3.5” 12 gauge pump turkey gun (Mossberg 835)
The coach gun wasn’t fun until I added a slip-on recoil pad. It increased the length of pull, but it doesn’t beat the hell out of my shoulder anymore.
I will say that my 12 gauge coach gun kicks harder than any of them except for my 3.5” 12 gauge pump turkey gun (Mossberg 835)
The coach gun wasn’t fun until I added a slip-on recoil pad. It increased the length of pull, but it doesn’t beat the hell out of my shoulder anymore.
Attachments
@DWalt Thanks for the info. That is good to know. In that case getting a .3 inch 12 gauge would be an option even it is going to be used with 2.5 shells only. For target/fun shooting the bigger shells have usage. The extra power is not neede for target/fun shooting anyway and the same goes for self defense. .3 inch shells also would be way more expensive than the 2.5 shells.
@Bumpus13 Thanks for the advice with the recoil pad. It is a very good advice. Back then when I had my first 12 gauge the recoil was really unpleasent. Not unbearable but I would not be mad if i can find ways tor reduce the recoil a bit.
@Bumpus13 Thanks for the advice with the recoil pad. It is a very good advice. Back then when I had my first 12 gauge the recoil was really unpleasent. Not unbearable but I would not be mad if i can find ways tor reduce the recoil a bit.
Do you guys have experience with using slugs in coach gun? I would be interested ingetting some for target/fun shooting but not sure if is a good idea to use a slug in rather short barreled shotgun. I would rather not use them for self defense because it would be overkill and I am also a bit worried about overpenetration. The homes in austria have thick walls of concret so the risk of overpenetration is not so hight compared to homes with thinner walls but who knows. I would not underestimate the power of such big lead projectile.
I have read that foster slugs are less lickely to overpenetrate because they are made of very soft lead and would expand rather fast when hitting a soft target. Does anybody know if that internet info is correct or not. if is correct I would get one of these for target fun shooting. In case I just have some slugs ready for defense it is better to have the least penetrating slugs already in case there is no buckshot or bird shot ammo around.
My first choice for home defense is always going to be some buck or birdshot the slugs would only be plan B when for some reason there is no shot ammo around.
I have read that foster slugs are less lickely to overpenetrate because they are made of very soft lead and would expand rather fast when hitting a soft target. Does anybody know if that internet info is correct or not. if is correct I would get one of these for target fun shooting. In case I just have some slugs ready for defense it is better to have the least penetrating slugs already in case there is no buckshot or bird shot ammo around.
My first choice for home defense is always going to be some buck or birdshot the slugs would only be plan B when for some reason there is no shot ammo around.
Jack Flash
Member
A few thoughts:
No gun is any good without ammunition, so a 20 gauge may not be the best option for you. Besides, you have made your decision.
Too bad, because especially with two barrels, I would guess the 20 would make an easier, handier, faster handling gun for a woman. Recoil isn't an issue for me, since I am a big boy, so I enjoy the 12, 16, and 20 for their individual qualities.
You can only worry so much about overpenetration. No matter what the payload, shot or slugs, and no matter what your walls are constructed of, errant shots could go through a window or door, unless those are fortified as well.
"Chaparral Arms Wyatt Earp 1878 Coach gun at sale next week hich grasped my attention. As I said above I am into These old old west type guns."
For home defense, I would pick a gun based on performance, not looks, "cool factor", etc. Above all else, you want a reliable gun. I am not familiar with the Chaparral Coach Gun, but if it's an older gun, it almost certainly isn't suitable for steel shot.
No gun is any good without ammunition, so a 20 gauge may not be the best option for you. Besides, you have made your decision.
Too bad, because especially with two barrels, I would guess the 20 would make an easier, handier, faster handling gun for a woman. Recoil isn't an issue for me, since I am a big boy, so I enjoy the 12, 16, and 20 for their individual qualities.
You can only worry so much about overpenetration. No matter what the payload, shot or slugs, and no matter what your walls are constructed of, errant shots could go through a window or door, unless those are fortified as well.
"Chaparral Arms Wyatt Earp 1878 Coach gun at sale next week hich grasped my attention. As I said above I am into These old old west type guns."
For home defense, I would pick a gun based on performance, not looks, "cool factor", etc. Above all else, you want a reliable gun. I am not familiar with the Chaparral Coach Gun, but if it's an older gun, it almost certainly isn't suitable for steel shot.
Similar threads
